Ukraine invasion

[seeker_two]

Propaganda from both ALL sides......

I don't trust either ANY of them..........

FIFY....

 

[cycleguy2300]

Russia had no future to begin with. This Twitter page isn’t the most credible though.

Can you provide some examples/fact of where they where wrong?

I'll give you they are (should be) biased... i.e. maybe they share a russian documenting 90% losses on attacks, without sharing their own losses... but russia is having to attack without armored protection for their troops which is suicidal in open ground and there are numerous videos showing fields LITTERED with dozens or hundreds of bodies. A flippant statement of the source not being credible really carries no weight without some facts to back it up because if you use my three pronged truth test, this video is still is reasonable and it still matches with other information we've seen so just because the source could be biased, it doesn't mean it is false.

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[Havok1]

Can you provide some examples/fact of where they where wrong?

I'll give you they are (should be) biased... i.e. maybe they share a russian documenting 90% losses on attacks, without sharing their own losses... but russia is having to attack without armored protection for their troops which is suicidal in open ground and there are numerous videos showing fields LITTERED with dozens or hundreds of bodies. A flippant statement of the source not being credible really carries no weight without some facts to back it up because if you use my three pronged truth test, this video is still is reasonable and it still matches with other information we've seen so just because the source could be biased, it doesn't mean it is false.

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A while back they used footage from a video game that they claimed was them shooting down a Russian helicopter. High casualties and lack of equipment isn’t just an issue on one side.

 

[oldag]

Can you provide some examples/fact of where they where wrong?

I'll give you they are (should be) biased... i.e. maybe they share a russian documenting 90% losses on attacks, without sharing their own losses... but russia is having to attack without armored protection for their troops which is suicidal in open ground and there are numerous videos showing fields LITTERED with dozens or hundreds of bodies. A flippant statement of the source not being credible really carries no weight without some facts to back it up because if you use my three pronged truth test, this video is still is reasonable and it still matches with other information we've seen so just because the source could be biased, it doesn't mean it is false.

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Russian casualties are widely reported as heavy amongst a variety of sources. Some of them Russian.

 

[ian]

A while back they used footage from a video game that they claimed was them shooting down a Russian helicopter. High casualties and lack of equipment isn’t just an issue on one side.

How many helicopters has Russia lost to Ukrainian fire?

 

[Havok1]

I’m not sure.

 

[ian]

I’m not sure.

Best guess?

 

[Havok1]

Best guess?

Why would me throwing out a random number matter?

 

[cycleguy2300]

A while back they used footage from a video game that they claimed was them shooting down a Russian helicopter. High casualties and lack of equipment isn’t just an issue on one side.

Some of yall thought the simulation of the FedEx/Southwest incident at ABIA/KAUS was real...

A mistake or misattribution is one thing. This isn't Iran photo shopping a missile launch with the same rocket and smoke.

If you look at the photo verifiable destroyed equipment, the Ukrainian's claims are perhaps generous but not unreasonable (and debunks the frequent claim of russia not sending their best equipment) This Twitter feed has been very accurate and reliable as has several of their Telegram feeds.

The number I have heard is recently around Vuhledar (I think, dont remember exactly where) was 7:1 K:L for the Ukrainians so a unit of muskovites doing frontal assault on foot against a well dug-in defender with combined arms (minus CAS) could very well be in the 80-90% loss range.

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[Havok1]

Some of yall thought the simulation of the FedEx/Southwest incident at ABIA/KAUS was real...

A mistake or misattribution is one thing. This isn't Iran photo shopping a missile launch with the same rocket and smoke.

If you look at the photo verifiable destroyed equipment, the Ukrainian's claims are perhaps generous but not unreasonable (and debunks the frequent claim of russia not sending their best equipment) This Twitter feed has been very accurate and reliable as has several of their Telegram feeds.

The number I have heard is recently around Vuhledar (I think, dont remember exactly where) was 7:1 K:L for the Ukrainians so a unit of muskovites doing frontal assault on foot against a well dug-in defender with combined arms (minus CAS) could very well be in the 80-90% loss range.

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Everything is just a mistake, or misattribution after they get caught. Never mind that the ukranian government is currently trying to regain control of their narrative after a now former Battalion commander unloaded the truth of what they are experiencing to the media a few days ago.

 

[ian]

If you throw out that you know Ukraine used fake footage of shooting down a helicopter seems like you should throw out the fact that Ukraine has shot down many many Russian helicopters. There are lots of real videos showing Russian helicopters being blown out of the sky.





Who benefits from the claim that Ukraine puts out blatantly fake videos?

 

[cycleguy2300]

Best guess?

This is the most recent list I found in the 30 seconds I spent looking.

I *think* these numbers include damaged equipment and wounded personnel rather than "kills" but they seem reasonable to me either way...

If 161,520 seems like a super crazy number... Given the 13 months of war, it is only about 410 casualties per day...

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[cycleguy2300]

Everything is just a mistake, or misattribution after they get caught. Never mind that the ukranian government is currently trying to regain control of their narrative after a now former Battalion commander unloaded the truth of what they are experiencing to the media a few days ago.

One suddenly becomes everything...

I would be awe struck if, during a war with all sorts of rumors, they hadn't published things that were later found to be misattribution or someone duping them.

I remember a number of times over the years where major news agencies spoke on the phone to folks who, during a time of an incident rapidly developing, had duped or tricked them. IIRC, they too only said it was a mistake or misattribution after the found out. If only they would tell us before, but then I doubt they would publish it...



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[Havok1]

One suddenly becomes everything...

I would be awe struck if, during a war with all sorts of rumors, they hadn't published things that were later found to be misattribution or someone duping them.

I remember a number of times over the years where major news agencies spoke on the phone to folks who, during a time of an incident rapidly developing, had duped or tricked them. IIRC, they too only said it was a mistake or misattribution after the found out. If only they would tell us before, but then I doubt they would publish it...



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That video never gets old! I think you misunderstood what I was saying though. They call it a mistake because they weren’t careful and other people found out the truth.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Have a BYOB wedding tonight so since I was at Specs I figured I'd get some vodak to make the homemade version of this https://www.fest.lviv.ua/en/restaurants/drunkcherry/

I was surprised to find Ukrianian products so now get to me some delicious cherry drink with proper Ukrianian vodak

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[cycleguy2300]

That video never gets old! I think you misunderstood what I was saying though. They call it a mistake because they weren’t careful and other people found out the truth.

No I get you.

They should have been more careful, but I don't think it was malicious.

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[leVieux]

How about we all take a break for an old memory, non contentious & apolitical:

 

[Eastexasrick]

The Conductor of this maybe the hottest Asian chick in music

 

[Havok1]

No I get you.

They should have been more careful, but I don't think it was malicious.

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Fair enough.

 

[wakosama]