Veterans against the 2nd amendment. Check this out

[benenglish]

I read an article last year that showed that the average IQ of an Army infantry platoon was 75.

It's difficult to teach even simple tasks to someone with an IQ under 85.

 

[343Gatter]

I always found the veteran worship in the US odd. I've never seen it anywhere else in the world to that extent.

I'm not saying don't appreciate and pay respect for their efforts, of course people should realise the sacrifice for those who have sacrificed (and that extends to anyone who puts themselves in harms way for the benefit of others) but the way big businesses capitalise on it, politicians leech off it, sports events parade it for ratings, has generated it's own strange thing where a lot of people in the US think that just because you were in he military you have some sort of divine understanding or knowledge, when really, like the stats show, 1/20 Soldiers ever see combat and maybe 1/12 maintain any real proficiency with their firearm, or ever fired it outside a range environment.

The point here is that issue motivated groups will use media to unfortunately parade and portray any uniformed person they can to further their agenda, and they have tapped into the mythology surrounding military servicemen/women. It's a hard one to combat aswell, for example even the guy on the thread who had to preface his comment with "this is an unpopular opinion but..." well no you should be allowed to call bullshit if it's bullshit no matter who the person is. It should not be that if you are speaking the truth, you should not be made out to be like you are disrespectful, unpatriotic etc and so on, especially when the ex military person in question is neither qualified nor properly competent on the subject they are discussing. It's a slimy game the issue motivated groups are playing and they know it too.

 

[majormadmax]

I respect veterans' opinions over those who have never served as they have actually done something to preserve and protect the rights of this nation, but that doesn't mean I always agree with them. When it comes down to it all, it's just one person's opinion and nothing more.

The same goes with celebrities and professional athletes. Just because the general public recognizes them doesn't mean they are smarter than the rest of us. In fact, most times it's the complete opposite.

I do take issue with the fact that anyone who has sworn an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic and who swears true faith and allegiance to the same doesn't actually understand what that document says.

To me, the Second Amendment is quite clear..."A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." There is no debate.

Of course, these same "experts" don't realize the extent of the First Amendment! To quote, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." They believe that no one has a right to suppress their "freedom of speech," but if you read the entire amendment it only states that Congress will not infringe on that right (by not making any laws prohibiting it).

My telling someone to shut the **** up is not a violation of their First Amendment right, so I am do exactly that to the veterans who apparently haven't bothered to read the Second Amendment despite swearing under oath to support and defend it.

 

[karlac]

....a lot of people in the US think that just because you were in he military you have some sort of divine understanding or knowledge....

Not taking you task and agree with the sometimes greed inspired, 'commercial advantage being taken' aspect of your post.

But want to add unequivocally that those who have spent days, weeks, and often months in daily life threatening situations during a combat duty tour do indeed have an "understanding" and "knowledge" that damn few others will ever gain ... and thank God and those soldiers that it's so few.

Thanking those who served their country without that experience, but whose service supported their comrades in harm's way, is why we thank and yes, often tend to venerate, all our veterans.

Just keep in mind that it's rarely a veteran, and a rarer one with the above experience, who asks for thanks ...

 

[TheMailMan]

It's difficult to teach even simple tasks to someone with an IQ under 85.

That explains the military love of repetition.

 

[MTA]

I always found the veteran worship in the US odd. I've never seen it anywhere else in the world to that extent.

I'm not saying don't appreciate and pay respect for their efforts, of course people should realise the sacrifice for those who have sacrificed (and that extends to anyone who puts themselves in harms way for the benefit of others) but the way big businesses capitalise on it, politicians leech off it, sports events parade it for ratings, has generated it's own strange thing where a lot of people in the US think that just because you were in he military you have some sort of divine understanding or knowledge, when really, like the stats show, 1/20 Soldiers ever see combat and maybe 1/12 maintain any real proficiency with their firearm, or ever fired it outside a range environment.

The point here is that issue motivated groups will use media to unfortunately parade and portray any uniformed person they can to further their agenda, and they have tapped into the mythology surrounding military servicemen/women. It's a hard one to combat aswell, for example even the guy on the thread who had to preface his comment with "this is an unpopular opinion but..." well no you should be allowed to call bullshit if it's bullshit no matter who the person is. It should not be that if you are speaking the truth, you should not be made out to be like you are disrespectful, unpatriotic etc and so on, especially when the ex military person in question is neither qualified nor properly competent on the subject they are discussing. It's a slimy game the issue motivated groups are playing and they know it too.

This is why I wont support Wounded Warrior Project. They keep nearly all of the donations and dont give shit to people who are broken from the two wars. Their ceo or whatever takes home over 300k a year. Its a giant crock of shit and it only exists to make a few assholes rich and make people feel good abiut themselves for trying to help out. I cant post a link on my stupid phone but a quick search will show you. I just think that the powers at be pushed the whole thank you for you service crap because they didnt want another generation of spurned, pissed off vets like in Nam. It didnt work on me lol

 

[Ole Cowboy]

I respect veterans' opinions over those who have never served as they have actually done something to preserve and protect the rights of this nation, but that doesn't mean I always agree with them. When it comes down to it all, it's just one person's opinion and nothing more.

The same goes with celebrities and professional athletes. Just because the general public recognizes them doesn't mean they are smarter than the rest of us. In fact, most times it's the complete opposite.

I do take issue with the fact that anyone who has sworn an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic and who swears true faith and allegiance to the same doesn't actually understand what that document says.

To me, the Second Amendment is quite clear..."A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." There is no debate.

Of course, these same "experts" don't realize the extent of the First Amendment! To quote, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." They believe that no one has a right to suppress their "freedom of speech," but if you read the entire amendment it only states that Congress will not infringe on that right (by not making any laws prohibiting it).

My telling someone to shut the **** up is not a violation of their First Amendment right, so I am do exactly that to the veterans who apparently haven't bothered to read the Second Amendment despite swearing under oath to support and defend it.

There is a debate and that is the problem.

The debate began with the Thompson 1928 Sub MG and where else??? Chicago, still one of the most dangerous places on earth.

Think I will start a thread on this...

 

[karlac]

I read an article last year that showed that the average IQ of an Army infantry platoon was 75. I guess that butter bar with an IQ of 100 feels pretty damn smart when dealing with them

It's difficult to teach even simple tasks to someone with an IQ under 85.

Two things that IQ can never measure: honor and bravery under fire ...

 

[karlac]

This is why I wont support Wounded Warrior Project. They keep nearly all of the donations and dont give shit to people who are broken from the two wars. Their ceo or whatever takes home over 300k a year. Its a giant crock of shit and it only exists to make a few assholes rich and make people feel good abiut themselves for trying to help out. I cant post a link on my stupid phone but a quick search will show you. I just think that the powers at be pushed the whole thank you for you service crap because they didnt want another generation of spurned, pissed off vets like in Nam. It didnt work on me lol

Bingo to the n'th f**king power!

Those assholes should be put to shame.
Lots more charitable giving out there.

My choice is generally the Fisher House Foundation.

Want to help a "wounded warrior"?
Make it possible for him to be surrounded by his loved ones.

 

[AustinN4]

This is why I wont support Wounded Warrior Project. They keep nearly all of the donations and dont give shit to people who are broken from the two wars. Their ceo or whatever takes home over 300k a year. Its a giant crock of shit and it only exists to make a few assholes rich and make people feel good abiut themselves for trying to help out.

Could be wrong but pretty sure they fired that CEO. But I still don't give to them because it took them too many years to do it. I give to Fisher House instead, which has a much high rating on the charity sites.
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=7585

Edited to add: I should have just said ditto to karlac's post.

 

[Lunyfringe]

Just because they were able to find a half dozen people who enlisted that were willing to take money in exchange for violating their oath*, doesn't mean that the script they read is accurate or good for this country.

*(IMHO, this is giving aid to a domestic enemy)

 

[BRD@66]

See my post #2. Call me pessimistic, but I also don't believe that the guy wearing a white lab jacket, selling Aleve in a TV commercial is a real doctor.

 

[AustinN4]

See my post #2. Call me pessimistic, but I also don't believe that the guy wearing a white lab jacket, selling Aleve in a TV commercial is a real doctor.

Say it isn't so! I'm shocked!

 

[benenglish]

...those who have spent days, weeks, and often months in daily life threatening situations during a combat duty tour do indeed have an "understanding" and "knowledge" that damn few others will ever gain...

Although he never credited his wartime experience directly, I believe that experience greatly informed the way my father lived his life, the man he was. That's a long winded way of saying you've touched on an important insight with which I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[karlac]

Although he never credited his wartime experience directly, I believe that experience greatly informed the way my father lived his life, the man he was. That's a long winded way of saying you've touched on an important insight with which I wholeheartedly agree.

While that's true of all combat veterans, it is particularly true of those from WWII and Korea.
I salute your father's service, sir.

 

[45tex]

The vast majority of Veterans never saw combat. It takes a bunch of people to support another mans boots on the ground, or that pilots overflight of the enemy. But the one thing we all have in common is we were willing should we be called. We were trained in basic. We were all soldiers. Even the Chair Force where I served.

 

[CPTKILLER]

This combat vet supports the Second Amendment & the Constitution.

 

[jkingrph]

I agree 100%. I am willing to bet all of these people sat behind a desk and they only used a rifle to qualify once a year.

I was an armorer and I saw stunning examples of retardation on behalf of infantry and non infantry Marines on a daily basis. I could only imagine what the other branches were like when it comes to a complete and utter lack of firearms knowledge

No argument from me on that point. I finished an active duty stint of 10 years as a USAF pharmacy officer, and only "qualified" twice. Once was in basic training with a M 16. It was cold and very windy that day, and I think my target ended up with 12-14 more holes in it than I had fired. Shows the level of training before we fired. I had been on a ROTC smallbore rifle team a couple of years, as well as shooting a 30-06 for fun for about 5 years by that time, so knew position shooting and how to handle recoil. Next time was about 5 months later in OCS where we qualified with the 38 revolver, a S&W Combat Masterpiece. The year before when I finished college I bought myself a graduation present of a S&W K 38, which was the same gun but with 2" more barrel, so was extremely proficient with it, again it was amazing how many of my fellow officer candidates had never fired a firearm.

In ten years that was the only two times I officially fired a gun. I separated during the post Vietnam slow down, stayed away for ten years, then went back in active reserves for a few years. Immediately I had to qualify with the 9mm M92, no problem but I did not care for the double/single action . We at that point had to requalify once a year which was fine with me. At that point I told some of the young enlisted personnel if things got bad enough as medics I wanted their rifle and they could have my handgun.

An interesting point, occasionally we would take personal arms to the range to fire. I had a friend, a male nurse who had been a police officer for a number of years, who wanted to fire my Colt 1911. He immediately started to get failure to feed and stovepipes. Turned out he was "limp wristing" to the extreme as all his prior experience had been with revolvers.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

The vast majority of Veterans never saw combat. It takes a bunch of people to support another mans boots on the ground, or that pilots overflight of the enemy. But the one thing we all have in common is we were willing should we be called. We were trained in basic. We were all soldiers. Even the Chair Force where I served.

I learned sometime ago to ask the guy with the military hat on what he did first, before I answer. Chances are he was something somewhere back there...then I thank he profusely and tell him that had he not been there my plate of beans and mag full of bullets would have been empty. Could never have done my job without them.

 

[jkingrph]

I learned sometime ago to ask the guy with the military hat on what he did first, before I answer. Chances are he was something somewhere back there...then I thank he profusely and tell him that had he not been there my plate of beans and mag full of bullets would have been empty. Could never have done my job without them.

Actually my first active duty assignment was at a SAC base in Fla. In late '69 the bomb squadron and tankers deployed for Vietnam, so my job was to help medical support for the remaining active troops, but mostly wives and children left behind and retirees. It takes a lot of support for those on the front, and most appreciated someone left behind taking care of their families.