Went to the GRB Gun Show this weekend

[shortround]

If the government announced "We are considering banning the production of Corvettes in January 2013", the price of Corvettes currently for sale would quadruple. We would all understand why.

If Coca-Cola announced that they were considering stopping the production of Coke effective next month. The price of Coca-Cola would skyrocket and we would understand why.

Yet when the same thing happens in the gun industry, gun owners who didn't have the foresight to buy what they needed when prices were historically low scream and cry about "price gouging" and people being "douche bags".

Its almost comedic to watch the wailing and crying....not about possible legislation, but about what Joe Blow wants for his AR.

Why werent these people buying over the last 3 years when gun prices were (when adjusted for inflation) at all time lows?

Help me understand this anti free market mind set.

Government Schools?

 

[mortdooley]

Thanks for your report on the GRB gun show, I was tempted to go see the panic myself but didn't feel there was anything likely to be in my price range.

 

[Eli]

I was wandering around with a Tantal/AK-74 and got no offers.

Eli

 

[F350-6]

That's the beauty of a free market...you are free to not buy it if you think its overpriced. You are free to never do business there again as well. If you don't agree with a free market economic system there are many countries that have price controlled economies. Cuba, China, North Korea, just pick one. As others have stated, you don't NEED to buy gun stuff....when folks are selling water after a disaster for $20 gallon, come talk to me about gouging. Because you can't get gun products at yesterday's prices anymore isn't going to make anyone lose any sleep. They aren't exploiting a tragedy. They are preparing for possible bad legislation. Huge difference.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2

Free market also says we can tell all our friends about the actions of those we see as wrong. I've been around some disasters. I'll call out those that sell water for $20 as well. I've seen several companies load up dozens of semi's and ship water into disaster areas for free. Guess which companies get my business today while there is no disaster?

 

[5 Screw Smith]

Free market also says we can tell all our friends about the actions of those we see as wrong. I've been around some disasters. I'll call out those that sell water for $20 as well. I've seen several companies load up dozens of semi's and ship water into disaster areas for free. Guess which companies get my business today while there is no disaster?

There's a difference between price gouging and the free market being well, free.

Price gouging | Define Price gouging at Dictionary.com

price gouging

noun

pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/price_gouging.shtml

Price Gouging

§17.46(b) of the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices-Consumer Protection Act provides that it is a false, misleading or deceptive act or practice to take advantage of a disaster declared by the Governor under Chapter 418, Government Code, by:

1. Selling or leasing fuel, food, medicine or another necessity at an exorbitant or excessive price; or
2. Demanding an exorbitant or excessive price in connection with the sale or lease of fuel, food, medicine or another necessity.

Fair Value Definition - What is Fair Value

Fair value is a market price that both the buyer and the seller, neither under duress, will accept for the good or service they're transacting. Fair value is the price at which supply and demand meet. Fair value not only assumes that neither the buyer nor the seller are in any way forced to make the transaction; fair value also assumes that both the buyer and the seller have reasonable knowledge of relevant facts. Fair value reflects the price at which a seller is willing to part with his item in exchange for money and a buyer is willing to part with her money in exchange for the item. Fair value does not necessarily reflect an item's intrinsic worth (e.g. the value of the materials used to make the item). An item's fair value is based on a comparable market analysis (in other words, an item's fair value is determined by the price at which similar items recently sold for).

 

[Texan2]

Free market also says we can tell all our friends about the actions of those we see as wrong. I've been around some disasters. I'll call out those that sell water for $20 as well. I've seen several companies load up dozens of semi's and ship water into disaster areas for free. Guess which companies get my business today while there is no disaster?

What does our opinion of what our friends are doing have to do with a free market?

As I stated in my post. You are free to do business or not do business where you choose.

 

[F350-6]

There's a difference between price gouging and the free market being well, free.

Price gouging | Define Price gouging at Dictionary.com

price gouging
noun
pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

But alternative retailers do exist.

What does our opinion of what our friends are doing have to do with a free market?

Has to do with long term planning. If a company wants to stay in business, it needs to either a) not piss off it's existing customers, or b) find a constant source of new customers.

If your business plan involves selling at gun shows, or selling from a fixed location, then your market demographic doesn't lend itself very well to plan b unless you want to keep your sales volume fairly low.

At least that's the way I see it. As you said, I'm free to never deal with them again, and I will encourage others I know to avoid them as well. It's all about choice. I'll still be spending money in 1 or 2 or 5 years. Hopefully they won't be around to be receiving any.

And I do understand prices going up some when a rush hits, but double MSRP crosses the line in my opinion since nothing has actually been banned yet.

 

[Texan2]

The grasp of a supply/demand system seems to elude you. I don't think the price of oil should fluctuate between $30 and $130 a bbl but it has. Such is life.Oil companies don't care what I think, so if I want their product I pay their price.

What YOU THINK something should sell for and what the market dictates have nothing to do with each other.

If/when they get banned the price will be 10x what it is today.

Look at M16s pre and post 1986.

 

[Eli]

Look at M16s pre and post 1986.

They didn't go up asppreciably until the late 90s. Reese Surplus ("Springfield Armory") was selling select-fire BM59s for a $20 premium well into the 90s.

Eli

 

[majormadmax]

If/when they get banned the price will be 10x what it is today.

Note that Feinstein's proposal calls for the "banning the sale, transfer, importation or manufacturing of military-style weapons and doing the same for magazines than can accept more than 10 rounds, meaning outside of their intrinsic value, monetarily these magazines will not have no worth whatsoever if you cannot sell them!

 

[smschulz]

There was no way in hell I was going to go. I can hardly find anything to buy there in normal times let alone now.

 

[Texan2]

They didn't go up asppreciably until the late 90s. Reese Surplus ("Springfield Armory") was selling select-fire BM59s for a $20 premium well into the 90s.

Eli

So what did one cost in 1985? 2012?

 

[Younggun]

They can only track sales if they can enforce registration which I don't believe they can do. At that point Feinsteins plan crumbles.

However, if it were to pass as is the sale or transfer of any AR, AK, etc would become illegal and the price of those unregistered firearms would probably become extremely high to those willing to take the risk while having essentially no value to those who already possess one or are not willing to break the law to have one.

 

[scap99]

They can only track sales if they can enforce registration which I don't believe they can do. At that point Feinsteins plan crumbles.

However, if it were to pass as is the sale or transfer of any AR, AK, etc would become illegal and the price of those unregistered firearms would probably become extremely high to those willing to take the risk while having essentially no value to those who already possess one or are not willing to break the law to have one.

When you attach a felony to either end of that deal and all bets are off.
One person can keep a secret. Two can't keep a secret unless one is dead.



"Those who appease a tiger do so in hope that the tiger will eat them last."
-Winston Churchill

 

[F350-6]

The grasp of a supply/demand system seems to elude you. I don't think the price of oil should fluctuate between $30 and $130 a bbl but it has. Such is life.Oil companies don't care what I think, so if I want their product I pay their price.

What YOU THINK something should sell for and what the market dictates have nothing to do with each other.

If/when they get banned the price will be 10x what it is today.

Look at M16s pre and post 1986.

No, I get supply and demand. When you can still get items at MSRP from more than one location, then selling for double MSRP by promoting the fear and trying to make a quick buck is wrong in my opinion. If things get banned, I understand that's a game changer for pricing, but while it's still available for much less, it's just price gouging.

 

[Texan2]

Let me know where ARs are still under $1000...I know plenty of wholesalers who are out of stock completely. In fact I cant find one anywhere. Been to plenty of stores in the past week and not a one to be seen. If somewhere has them for MSRP, they wont have them long after they put them on the shelf. Demand FAR FAR exceeds supply right now.
If a ban goes into effect, you will WISH you had bought at these prices. Post ban prices will be several times higher than what you see now.

Price gouging has been explained to you by more than one person already and what is going on this month is not price gouging. Not sure where the disconnect is, that is making this difficult for you to get. Things don't need to get banned to effect prices...the buyers just need to think there is a credible threat of them being unavailable in the future.

Example: The THREAT of war in the mid east jacks up oil prices. There doesn't actually need to be a war.

As with any commodity, guns are a speculative market. It seems that your approach is that if you just keep calling it price gouging, it will make it so. Sorry, it won't.

Most of this is economics 101.

 

[Acera]

This is going to be a hard learned lesson if it goes through. Maybe people will be smart enough to translate this gun crisis into other facets of their lives.

When there is a hurricane in the gulf, it's too late to buy flood insurance.
When the power is out, bad time to go and try to buy a generator.
When the shelves on the Kroger are empty, not a good time to shop for your groceries.
Renewing your auto insurance policy from the accident site is also probably not going to work either......

If the folks at DPMS, Stag, MagPul, Century, Federal, CCI, Ruger, etc. are not running at the limits of their production capacity trying to restock their distributors I would be surprised.

Hang it their folks.........

 

[1slow01Z71]

I'll be going to the gun show to take advantage of the idiots to sell some lowers. I believe the saying is something like, "a fool and his money are soon parted". Who am I to deny them the chance to donate to my bank account?

 

[Langenator]

I've got an extra converted Saiga-12. Maybe I'll go and try to see how much I can get for it. If someone offers me more than $1500, I might be tempted to sell both of them.

The next show I see listed is the one at the Reliant Center. Is that a good show?

 

[Radioman93]

Well there are a few gun shows around. Question is what will be available at each show. I went to the Pasadena show today and it seemed to be more of a Knife, Jerky and Glitter/Bling show than a gun show. If it was a firearms table it was about double what a reasonable price would be (Glocks for 650-750 at one table) or the table was about empty of pistols. Rifles were old and over priced or just WAY over priced (a 6920 with an MRE, Old Eotech, One mag, a case and a first aid kit for 5K WTF). Not many bolt guns displayed but there were plenty of open spaces that I bet had AR or AK based rifles on them when the show started. The cheapest stripped lower I saw at the show was $400. Average was $450-550 for a stripped forged lower up to $799 for a forged assembled lower.

For upcoming shows here is what I have found looking at my usual suspects list

Jan 12-13 High Caliber Gun Show @ Conroe Convention Center
Jan 12-13 Premier Gun Show @ Stafford Center

Jan 19-20 H.G.C.A. show @ Reliant Convention Center

Jan 26-27 High Caliber Gun Show @ GRB Convention Center

Feb 2-3 High Caliber Gun Show @ Pasadena Convention Center

Hope that helps

Radioman