Why .40?

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    TexasRedneck

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    It's really a matter of personal preference, IMO. I own several .40's, one 9 mm (hasn't been shot in almost 20 years), an' wewontgothere .45's. If you make a SD gun purchase based on ammo price, IMO you're fooling yourself. This is something you ARE gonna have to bet your life on - so if you allow cost to factor in in any significant manner, you're simply saying you're safety isn't worth the cost. That is NOT meant as a "shot" at anyone, but as something to consider!!
    The LE community went to 9mm's in a huge way years back - and learned the same lesson the US Military did back in the early 1900's with the .38 - it is NOT a manstopper, and someone with a bit of alcohol/drugs in their system can seemingly "ignore" the impact. Yeah - I know Europeans consider the 9mm an elephant gun, but IMO it's a good round, but not quite what is needed for the job. Beats a fist easily, but there are better choices.
    The 9mm exodus from the LE community should (IMO) have been a warning sign to the many civilian owners that the round had been tried and found wanting. I've seen/read/talked with too many LEO's that have been involved with 9mm shootings to fully trust it.
    Bear in mind that I carry a .380 as a backup - so I DO recognize that there's an arguement to be made for "better than nothing". If you say "Nothing else fits", I can understand - but I'll also (respectfully) say you may not have tried some of the alternatives available in the 40/45 genre. Like anything else, there's usually options to help fitment.
    Take my wife - she has VERY small hands.....has shot 357/38's for years because that's what fit her hand. At the range last month or month before, I finally got her to try one of my .45's. She agreed that she liked it (and was dead-on with it), but it was obvious it was a tad large for her hands. Got a set of slim grips, put 'em on and she now loves to shoot the thing. She still prefers either her 38 or 380 to carry though - she's quite tiny (5', 105 lbs) and a 45 IS a lot for her to tote around. Nice thing is, she's finally comfortable with being able to pick up a .45 and let fly with it - so I feel a lot better if there's a SHTF situation.
    Personally, I'm fine with whatever someone chooses to carry - it's their choice. I just hate the "cost" to become a factor, because you're betting your personal safety over a few cents. If it's THAT important, invest a few bucks and reload - THAT will pay big dividends in a VERY short time, and really let you explore what's out there! I stuffed about 1600 45's this weekend at a cost of about 10 cents/round (yeah - that's powder, primer, bullet AND case) - so THAT is where I prefer to save my costs!
    BTW - [url]http://www.classifiercalc.com/misc_calcs/rc.php[/URL] is a neat site - plug in your component cost and it'll tell you your loaded round cost. Allows you to enter your costs as you buy it (per thousand, pound, grains per round, etc).
    Texas SOT
     

    GM.Chief

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    TexasRedneck, I can agree with you to a point on the cost thing, but only so far. For us, we were just starting out in firearms after not really being raised around them. Furthermore, we both have a bit of a perfectionist attitude and can't stand not being as good as weknow we can be. When you add in the fact that we are a young couple with 4 kids, cost is very much a factor. Don't get me wrong, I agree that in the end it is our live's on the line and by no means did we just find what was cheapest overall. But the simple fact of the matter is practice makes perfect, but you can't improve if you can't afford to buy enough ammo to practice steadily with (let alone find it...lol). Now don't get me wrong, cost was again, by no means the main basis of our decision, but after researching 9mm vs. 40 vs 45 I found that they are all considered good choices as SD rounds. After that, then price can come into play as well as comfort in size, etc. Plain and simple, you can always upgrade to a larger (and yes, more expensive on avg.) round later on whe you can afford to and in the argument/debate between all calibers, 9mm/40/45 are all more than sufficient. As far as reloading goes, well...I'm working on getting there. Regardless of price however, after firing 9mm's and 45's I am still glad I went with 40.
     

    Roscoe

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    I like the .45acp. For a ccw I think my Colt Commander is about perfect. Power wise I think the .40S&W is closer than the .45acp than the 9mm compares to the .40. I like the 13 rounds of .40 I can carry in my G23, and may once in a while make a quick run to the store without an extra mag. As the .40 has become the LEO pistol of choice more and more effective ammo choices will become available for it. Same thing happened to the 9mm in the late 70's and 80's when the 9's took over the cop market. I don't feel concerned carrying a 9mm, but within reason I prefer a larger caliber.
     

    TexasRedneck

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    For us, we were just starting out in firearms after not really being raised around them.

    That always makes it fun - w/o the "background", you REALLY have a lot of myths and fables to weed through trying to find the basic truths!


    Furthermore, we both have a bit of a perfectionist attitude and can't stand not being as good as weknow we can be. When you add in the fact that we are a young couple with 4 kids, cost is very much a factor.

    hehehe - raised 4 ourselves! ALL of 'em shot competitively, so I know 'bout the "cost card"!! One of the reasons reloading paid BIG dividends! Of course, we had a single-stage press....it was a pretty easy job, since I had LOTS of hands to help set things up!<G> They were'nt allowed to drop the powder, but they DID do 'bout everything else!


    But the simple fact of the matter is practice makes perfect, but you can't improve if you can't afford to buy enough ammo to practice steadily with (let alone find it...lol).

    Ya might consider findin' a "beater" .45 an' gettin' a .22 conversion for it....let's you get familiar with the feel of the gun, but shoot DIRT cheap as well!


    Now don't get me wrong, cost was again, by no means the main basis of our decision, but after researching 9mm vs. 40 vs 45 I found that they are all considered good choices as SD rounds.

    That's where we differ. For me, 9mm is not an option, unless there's NO other choice - and I'll take a snubby 5-shot .357 long before a 9mm - but again, that is JUST ME. We ALL have our prejudices, and nothing makes "me" right - it's just right for ME. I might razz you about it, might tease ya to death on the range - but it'll always be with humor, not degradation in mind!


    Plain and simple, you can always upgrade to a larger (and yes, more expensive on avg.) round later on whe you can afford to and in the argument/debate between all calibers, 9mm/40/45 are all more than sufficient.

    Again - for ME, 9mm is not an option. Put it this way - all told, I've got over 30 handguns (yeah - I tend to collect 'em...) 4 of 'em are .22, 2 are "heirlooms" that are NEVER shot (only once), 6 are .380's (5 of which are "pocket pistols", 1 is wife's purse gun), 3 .357's, 3 .40's - the balance are .45's (let's just say over half my collection are .45's...). If SHTF, I will be grabbin' a .45 first!!

    Just remember - ya hafta still BE here to upgrade later....



    As far as reloading goes, well...I'm working on getting there. Regardless of price however, after firing 9mm's and 45's I am still glad I went with 40.

    And that's the thing - it's been way too long since I had to make choices based on finances on something like a firearm. I CAN remember stressing out over the extra money spent on a quality firearm, because I had learned firsthand that a cheap gun can be a very bad choice - but back then, that was really the only option - you didn't have the plethora of mid-range guns to choose from that you do today. But yeah - given the choice between a 9 and a 40, I'll take the 40 each and every time.
     

    Texas42

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    Gosh, I can't reload for 10 cents a round. I'm jealous.

    I guess my two cents are that 40 S&W is a great round. Not markedly better than either 9mm or .45 auto.

    I think there is a big belief that .40 was created as an "in-between" cartridge to 9mm and .45 auto.

    This isn't true. Both 9mm and .45 auto are old military rounds. The .40 S&W is a spin off of the 10mm.
     

    TexasRedneck

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    Don't be - just shop components hard!<G> I buy 15k primers at a time from Graf's, and powder in 8 lb. lots. My bullets come from Mastercraft, and I generally buy 'em in 10k lots. So it's a matter of ponying up for the "bulk buy" discounts that gets my per-round cost down. If I was buying in 1-5k lots locally, my per round cost would jump 3-5 cents each.
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    I like the .40S&W for many of the reasons stated. It's a high velocity round, a little larger than the 9mm; not quite as large as the .45ACP. It strikes with the kinetic energy of a standard .45ACP. FBI Ballistics Gel Testing shows the .40S&W with both penetration and temporary cavity comparable to the .45ACP. When I combine this with the fact that I can carry almost twice the ammo of a comparable .45ACP, I'll opt for the .40S&W.

    Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg


    By the way, there's no such thing as "Knock Down Power." I could bore you with a long FBI dissertation (Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness), but the YouTube - Myths Revisited 2 - Blown Away
     

    randmplumbingllc

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    Gosh, I can't reload for 10 cents a round. I'm jealous.

    I guess my two cents are that 40 S&W is a great round. Not markedly better than either 9mm or .45 auto.

    I think there is a big belief that .40 was created as an "in-between" cartridge to 9mm and .45 auto.

    This isn't true. Both 9mm and .45 auto are old military rounds. The .40 S&W is a spin off of the 10mm.


    I am GUESSING that he either bought components WAY before the current RUSH and is molding his own lead bullets, or BOTH. Either way, I wish I could come anywhere close to that for .45 FMJ !

    Nice Job !

    Slick marketing has created the "in-between" tag for the .40.
     

    TexasRedneck

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    Lemme see....Mastercraft - 45 cal, 185 gr SWC cast - $66/k, powder is $21/lb, primers $23.40/k. All prices include shipping/hazmats, etc. Run the numbers - I did twice, because I thought it looked low, too!!
    Runnin' 230 gr FMJ WOULD jump the costs - Rainiers are running 'bout $100/1000 via a group buy found at [url]http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443905[/URL] . I bought from the guy that put the GB together, and can tell you he's "real" and easy to deal with.
     

    SC-Texas

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    I carry a 10mm Glock 20 or Glock 29.

    I shoot a 9mm Glock 34 in competition.

    I have lots of .40 brass that gets picked up with the .45 and 9mm brass.

    frankly, the .40 is the 10mm short. Its a good round, but its a solution searching for a problem and was made popular by those who beleived that the 9mm didn't kill wel enough but couldn't handle the 10mm hot loads.

    I'll take my 10mm, .45acp and 9mm, thank you very much.
     

    Okierifleman

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    Lemme see....Mastercraft - 45 cal, 185 gr SWC cast - $66/k, powder is $21/lb, primers $23.40/k. All prices include shipping/hazmats, etc. Run the numbers - I did twice, because I thought it looked low, too!!
    Runnin' 230 gr FMJ WOULD jump the costs - Rainiers are running 'bout $100/1000 via a group buy found at [URL="http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443905"][url]http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443905[/URL][/URL] . I bought from the guy that put the GB together, and can tell you he's "real" and easy to deal with.

    I am paying about $130 for my Rainiers, and about the same for my W231 and primers. Just havent felt like making the jump to cast yet.

    I personally carry a 45 Kimber, I have a Beretta 40 in one nightstand and a STI GP6 in the other. I am looking at getting a pocket 9mm for summer carry. If I have my personal preference, I will pick the 45 every day. The 40 is a good round, no doubt about it. And, anyone who bashes the 9mm or the 380 as a defense round, ask them one question. Do you mind if I put a couple of rounds into your chest?? Usually shuts them up pretty quick.
     

    randmplumbingllc

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    Lemme see....Mastercraft - 45 cal, 185 gr SWC cast - $66/k, powder is $21/lb, primers $23.40/k. All prices include shipping/hazmats, etc. Run the numbers - I did twice, because I thought it looked low, too!!
    Runnin' 230 gr FMJ WOULD jump the costs - Rainiers are running 'bout $100/1000 via a group buy found at [URL="http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443905"][url]http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443905[/URL][/URL] . I bought from the guy that put the GB together, and can tell you he's "real" and easy to deal with.

    Yeah, I get my bullets from Precision Delta or Momtana Gold. About $114.00 a K . Both have good quality stuff. Never had any luck with Rainier plated stuff. Most primers are running about $30.00 a K and powder is about $17.00 a lb., so that puts me at about .16 cents a round.

    It still aint bad for 230gn FMJ

    Sorry for taking thread kinda off course
     

    TexasRedneck

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    Yeah, I get my bullets from Precision Delta or Momtana Gold. About $114.00 a K . Both have good quality stuff. Never had any luck with Rainier plated stuff. Most primers are running about $30.00 a K and powder is about $17.00 a lb., so that puts me at about .16 cents a round.

    Sorry for taking thread kinda off course

    ummmm....go to [url]http://www.classifiercalc.com/misc_calcs/rc.php[/URL] and recalc yer per-load cost - it's about half what yer thinkin' it is!

    UPDATE!!!!!
    Sorry, guys - I just reran the numbers, because it seemed kinda low to me - don't know what key I was hitting wrong, but my per-round cost is more like 10.28 cents/round.....my BAD!!!
     

    Okierifleman

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    randmplumbingllc

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    ummmm....go to [URL="http://www.classifiercalc.com/misc_calcs/rc.php"][url]http://www.classifiercalc.com/misc_calcs/rc.php[/URL][/URL] and recalc yer per-load cost - it's about half what yer thinkin' it is!

    UPDATE!!!!!
    Sorry, guys - I just reran the numbers, because it seemed kinda low to me - don't know what key I was hitting wrong, but my per-round cost is more like 10.28 cents/round.....my BAD!!!

    No ? It is just about right. That calculator is per 50 rounds, not 100. I have done the math several times and that site even says 7.75 per 50

    So, that is $15.50 per 100, or $155.00 per 1000, or 15.5 cents a round. So, "ABOUT" 16 CENTS A ROUND. Right ? Otherwise, I need some more book learnin !
     

    TexasRedneck

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    No ? It is just about right. That calculator is per 50 rounds, not 100. I have done the math several times and that site even says 7.75 per 50

    So, that is $15.50 per 100, or $155.00 per 1000, or 15.5 cents a round. So, "ABOUT" 16 CENTS A ROUND. Right ? Otherwise, I need some more book learnin !

    Kiss one goat.......:banghead:

    Sorry!
     
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