widespread price-gouging

[Kyle]

Okay - dogleg in the conversation here.....we have gone from deciding what is moral to what is reputable and honorable.

Everyone please be super quite while the most reputable amongst us explains, in quite uncertain terms, how business 'should' be done.

And may he that has never sinned cast the first stone.

Ridicule as you please. Morals, honor, and reputation are one in the same. no dog leg here. I never said anything about being more reputable than anyone. I haven't stated any specific way that business should be done either, just that it is wrong and pretty low, in my opinion, when one is so evidently taking advantage of another. If you are going to chime in to be condescending, don't be afraid to add your thoughts on the subject so we all know where you stand.

I have had a couple of transactions with Texan2 and he is a great guy to deal with by all counts.

I understand what you are saying Kyle, I just don't agree with it. If buyers are willing to pay a certain price for an certain item, then that is the price. Crying because circumstance has altered what once WAS the price puzzles me.

The value of any item is exactly what someone is willing to pay. Currently the ammo market is somewhat of a bubble, one that is poised to burst. We have had the same thing happen in the precious metals market, the real estate market, the gun market and many other markets.

As stated already. The market is self correcting.

The price hasnt really changed though, if the vendors had price increases across the board, it's a non issue, because that is what the market is doing; but the vendor prices are still $x , while the flippers prices on the same product that they cleaned out from the vendor minutes earlier is $xx. Like I said, they have dried up the primary market and created a secondary market to line their pockets.

 

[kirk10100]

Caveat Emptor.

It sucks to be uniformed.

This thread is really funny.

Prices back to reality? Whose reality? And who gets to decide what the proper price should be? I think the market dictates that.

I remember SKSs that were $79 all day long. WASR AKs for $350. Mosins for $69.

None of those weapons will EVER be those prices again. I guess the gun retailers are "gouging" us.

Damn! I remember those prices. I wish I knew then what I know now.

 

[Texan2]

Ridicule as you please. Morals, honor, and reputation are one in the same. no dog leg here. I never said anything about being more reputable than anyone. I haven't stated any specific way that business should be done either, just that it is wrong and pretty low, in my opinion, when one is so evidently taking advantage of another. If you are going to chime in to be condescending, don't be afraid to add your thoughts on the subject so we all know where you stand.

I have had a couple of transactions with Texan2 and he is a great guy to deal with by all counts.




The price hasnt really changed though, if the vendors had price increases across the board, it's a non issue, because that is what the market is doing; but the vendor prices are still $x , while the flippers prices on the same product that they cleaned out from the vendor minutes earlier is $xx. Like I said, they have dried up the primary market and created a secondary market to line their pockets.

There are buyers willing to pay a high price. there are enough of them that shelves remain empty. That means there is now a high price. The price HAS changed. Vendors can charged whatever they want. The retail price has been altered.

If Bill Gates goes around the nation and buys all the Cadillacs and says he will sell them for $500,000 each...guess what? The price is now $500,000 for a Cadillac, doesn't matter if you like it or agree with it.

 

[kirk10100]

This has been an interesting post. In my hometown there were some inflated prices. Mostly I saw this happening in local postings and a few locally owned stores. I agree that these individuals have every right to charge what they will but that still doesn't make it right. We can debate this issue forever with no clear winning point but my concern is with a post earlier on that suggested that those not prepared for disasters or other unexpected events must suffer the consequences. I like to think that I prepare for unexpected events but not everything. Does this mean I should go without water, gasoline, or other neccesities because i can't afford the inflated prices? When a natural disaster occurs I would expect that common human decency prevails over profit and people do the right thing. As we have seen in the past, this doesn't always happen.

 

[kirk10100]

There are buyers willing to pay a high price. there are enough of them that shelves remain empty. That means there is now a high price. The price HAS changed. Vendors can charged whatever they want. The retail price has been altered.

If Bill Gates goes around the nation and buys all the Cadillacs and says he will sell them for $500,000 each...guess what? The price is now $500,000 for a Cadillac, doesn't matter if you like it or agree with it.

True, but is it right?

 

[Texan2]

The difference here Kirk is that people won't die if they can't buy a box of .22 lr today.

 

[Texan2]

True, but is it right?

Personally I don't have an issue with it. Those who do come across to me as uber liberal. Upset because people are making too much profit.

My humble opinion.

 

[JColumbus]

Personally I don't have an issue with it. Those who do come across to me as uber liberal. Upset because people are making too much profit.

My humble opinion.

uber-
ˈo͞obər/
combining form
1.
denoting an outstanding or supreme example of a particular kind of person or thing.

How does the opposite of your opinion come across as a supreme example of a liberal? I have respect for you, but to be honest, your statement parallels liberals, calling conservatives racist, because they have an apposing opinion than that of Obama. To me, THAT come's across as more liberal than some of the implications, that being upset about gouging, comes with.

This isn't directed at you, Texan, but to those whom it may apply. Kyle's been making good points from the perspective of someone who owns a business, like it, or not. It's one thing to disagree, and another to make irrelevant, childish remarks that don't serve any purpose for one's argument. Then, if someone expresses displeasure about something they believe is wrong, it is stated that he's whining. When you declare someone is whining, you are also expressing displeasure that that person is expressing his. By the antagonizer's logic, is this not also whining? Can we debate without being condescending toward each other? If you lack a good argument to support your opinion, why do you fall back on offending people of the opposing opinion? Rhetorical.

Most of you know where I stand on this topic. I can't stand when people buy stuff out to flip it for ridiculous amounts to those who ACTUALLY use, or need it. It's as ridiculous as a group of people going out to every store in town, buying up all of the tampons, and selling them to woman for 3x the cost. "Shoulda stocked up on tampons". That's the best your reasoning can do? I understand those arguments that do offer good reasoning and as far as I am concerned it is a tricky topic. I admit there's a thin line but, to me, it takes an inconsiderate, immoral person who generally can give a damn about his fellow man, to do this crap. I don't understand how most of you don't agree, but I will not insult you for it.

As stated Kyle has some good points. Some of you may disagree and I can see why, cause those of you who are being productive in this debate, have really good points, as well. So, let's keep this debate going in a positive, mature direction. I, for one, am learning a bit off of this thread. It sucks having to shift through the instigators.

 

[stanjones]

There's a lot more liberals on this site than I expected.

I was thinking the same thing as i read through these comments.

 

[stanjones]

There is a physical shortage of .22 no doubt, this warrants the higher prices as it's lack of availability is driving it up...however, like gasoline, ammo is still pretty cheap...maybe we should be looking at our money to find the culprit.
a 525round box @ .05/round is running $6.56, even if you went all the way to .10/round for a 525 box it's only $13.12. ...How could that be, you ask?
One pre-65 (90% silver) U.S. quarter is going for $4.00...use real money to measure prices, not FRN's. The price in funny money will continue to rise to infinity. With the FED printing like crazy, expect the price of ammo measured in Reserve Notes to become ridiculous.

 

[Peking]

I was at Gander Mountain over in Mesquite and they had some .22lr and lots of .223/5.56

 

[subseashooter]

If you are going to chime in to be condescending, don't be afraid to add your thoughts on the subject so we all know where you stand.

Nah, I just wanted to be condescending. :-)

But the market will do what it will do. There are two ways to "break" a "Gougers market" - First would be for EVERYONE to stop buying ammo until the price falls to a point that has been collectively decided to be a 'fair' price. Likelyhood - Nill.

The other would be for 'fair' retailers to build up stocks so large that they can continue to sell to everyone that wants ammo at a 'fair' price, and not run out before their next shipment comes in; which, in the case of the recent run on ammo, could be many months. I'd appauld anyone that can pull this feat off.

There is a physical shortage of .22 no doubt, this warrants the higher prices as it's lack of availability is driving it up...however, like gasoline, ammo is still pretty cheap...maybe we should be looking at our money to find the culprit.
a 525round box @ .05/round is running $6.56, even if you went all the way to .10/round for a 525 box it's only $13.12. ...How could that be, you ask?
One pre-65 (90% silver) U.S. quarter is going for $4.00...use real money to measure prices, not FRN's. The price in funny money will continue to rise to infinity. With the FED printing like crazy, expect the price of ammo measured in Reserve Notes to become ridiculous.

Excellent point - Was just having a conversation about when prices would perhaps go back to 'normal', but I haven't heard anyone mention inflation in there.....how much inflation have we seen in the last 9 months? That would be an interesting variable to include in future calculations.

 

[no cigar]

I thought there were going to be serious restrictions, such as a return to the AWB, and if I wanted to exercise my 2A that's the price I had to pay at the time.

Soooo we can enjoy our constitutional rights, at the right price whatever it may be, even if it is prohibitive enough to muscle out a lot people in the citizenry? This is just another prohibitive means like background checks and legislation that keeps people from enjoying their right to gun ownership and frankly someone who wouldn't see it that way in favor if gouging someone else is not really a true patriot in my eyes. He's more akin to a dirty scumbag.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[CitizenSeven]

Soooo we can enjoy our constitutional rights, at the right price whatever it may be, even if it is prohibitive enough to muscle out a lot people in the citizenry? This is just another prohibitive means like background checks and legislation that keeps people from enjoying their right to gun ownership and frankly someone who wouldn't see it that way in favor if gouging someone else is not really a true patriot in my eyes. He's more akin to a dirty scumbag.

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The political environment, including the current restrictions and the potential for even more draconian measures, causes panics and shortages. The so-called gougers are operating in that environment, and charging what that market will bear. The consumers are likewise living in that environment, and are either paying what it takes to exercise their 2A rights or not. Apparently, sufficient numbers opted in, or else the rise in prices due to demand shock would not have occurred. It seems that it has been abating somewhat of late as new manufacturers especially re-manufacturers, enter the market. When I started getting ammo back in March, you were lucky to get it (online at least) for 70 cents a round. Now, you can get steel or re-manufactured for under 40 cents, and brass for under 50. That's a significant cost reduction in a span of six months, and it didn't happen because some entity enacted price-controls or prevented third party resellers from acting. Quite the contrary, actually, as the increase in cost drove more players into the supply-side of the market, and competition drove prices back down.

That's the true measure of freedom: everyone gets to do what they want, and act in their own best interests. No one is compelled to any action, or prevented from any action that directly harms another. Sometimes that means prices (for whatever item) spike. Sometimes that means they crater. Attempts to artificially control either the supply or demand is exactly the sort of reasoning that got us the ACA, an abomination if there ever was one. I just hope people have the good sense not to apply the same sort of reasoning to other merchandise or services, but I have scant hope. Once you enter a command economy, more and more aspects need to be "tweaked" or "fixed" to keep the thing running as dictated rather than as chosen.

 

[Sapper740]

This poop again?

Socialist much?

This thread and the others that came before it are getting really old. It's the law of "supply and demand" children. Why do you think we're paying >$3.00/gallon for gasoline? People buy shit made in China and India causing their standard of living to rise to the point they can consider buying that motorcycle or car they've dreamed about for years. Motorcycles and cars burn gasoline. Chinese and Indian suppliers start bidding up the price of crude to ensure they can supply the consumers in their countries. We Americans bitch about the price of the gasoline we put in our vehicles on the way to Wal-Mart to buy the Chinese and Indian consumer goods that will further increase the global demand for crude. Now we're bitching about the price of ammo. How many on this forum do nothing to change the political scene in this country other than to piss and moan on TGT and vote Republican? If you don't want assholes like Obama in office, get active! Join your local TEA Party or Republican Party, donate some time to knocking on doors, answering phones, and give money to the good guys who support the 2nd Amendment. Incessantly whining about the price of ammo does nothing. Pull your thumb out, get off your couch and keyboard and DO something about it.

 

[Sapper740]

Soooo we can enjoy our constitutional rights, at the right price whatever it may be, even if it is prohibitive enough to muscle out a lot people in the citizenry? This is just another prohibitive means like background checks and legislation that keeps people from enjoying their right to gun ownership and frankly someone who wouldn't see it that way in favor if gouging someone else is not really a true patriot in my eyes. He's more akin to a dirty scumbag.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I want to enjoy my right to gun ownership too and I've been looking for an M16A1. The cheapest I've been able to find is one on Gunbroker.com. and the seller wants $16,000 for the rifle. Is he a "dirty scumbag" for selling the rifle for over 30 times what the manufacturer sold it for originally or is it simply the law of supply and demand at work?

 

[Texan2]

I want to enjoy my right to gun ownership too and I've been looking for an M16A1. The cheapest I've been able to find is one on Gunbroker.com. and the seller wants $16,000 for the rifle. Is he a "dirty scumbag" for selling the rifle for over 30 times what the manufacturer sold it for originally or is it simply the law of supply and demand at work?

Yes...he is a scumbag. Game over.

 

[Kyle]

This thread and the others that came before it are getting really old. It's the law of "supply and demand" children. Why do you think we're paying >$3.00/gallon for gasoline? People buy shit made in China and India causing their standard of living to rise to the point they can consider buying that motorcycle or car they've dreamed about for years. Motorcycles and cars burn gasoline. Chinese and Indian suppliers start bidding up the price of crude to ensure they can supply the consumers in their countries. We Americans bitch about the price of the gasoline we put in our vehicles on the way to Wal-Mart to buy the Chinese and Indian consumer goods that will further increase the global demand for crude. Now we're bitching about the price of ammo. How many on this forum do nothing to change the political scene in this country other than to piss and moan on TGT and vote Republican? If you don't want $#@!s like Obama in office, get active! Join your local TEA Party or Republican Party, donate some time to knocking on doors, answering phones, and give money to the good guys who support the 2nd Amendment. Incessantly whining about the price of ammo does nothing. Pull your thumb out, get off your couch and keyboard and DO something about it.

Supply and demand yes but how many guys are going to the pumps, filling up whatever they can with gas until the pumps are dry, then they turn around to resell it to you for $15 a gallon because you can't get it elsewhere? You mean to tell me you wouldn't have a fit over guys doing that? You don't need gas for you car, walk or ride a bike. Cars are a luxury item.

 

[Texan2]

Supply and demand yes but how many guys are going to the pumps, filling up whatever they can with gas until the pumps are dry, then they turn around to resell it to you for $15 a gallon because you can't get it elsewhere? You mean to tell me you wouldn't have a fit over guys doing that? You don't need gas for you car, walk or ride a bike. Cars are a luxury item.

If someone did that I would not have an issue. Its been done in the silver market, gold market, in fact in the stock market its done everyday.

If someone can't afford to drive a car, that's unfortunate, but such is life. You have no "right" to drive a car.

 

[Sugar Land]

If you don't like the price don't buy it and move on.