Your 9MM is over rated

[cycleguy2300]

Never believe charts or numbers for anything when Actual tests or facts aren't done or given otherwise it's all speculation that looks good on paper to the authors.

Its why I trust the anesthesiologist more than a lot of "gun" people. His bias was saving lives and had no dog in the 9/45/40/10 nonsense

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[paknheat]

View attachment 404293

I have heard those exact words said in a trauma room about 7 years ago. It was also a GSW to the left leg.


Poor gal wasn’t smiling though.


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[Sasquatch]

Its why I trust the anesthesiologist more than a lot of "gun" people. His bias was saving lives and had no dog in the 9/45/40/10 nonsense

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But had he learned about the latest, the greatest, the most amazing pistol round conceived in the last 100 years - the almighty, the magnificent, THE .30 Super Carry?

Bass Pro had that stuff for $30 a box for FMJ target ammo. Gotta be amazing if its that expensive and that hyped. Still waiting on the Glock 50 that's chambered in it.

 

[usmcpmi]

And why isn't there a column for 50 BMG one shot stops? Probably rated below the .22 short because of the recoil.

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[Catherine1]

Someone needs to show this to Mr Brandon.

Good one!

Old Lady Cate

 

[Catherine1]

Meh, old news.

This study, and others like it have been discussed and debunked before. It's too simplistic and like most efforts to analyze stats leaves a lot of considerations/factors out. Stats can say anything the analyst wants them to say.

The short answer: Use what you train with and are most proficient with. Hits to CNS or center mass "usually" give reasonable results. "One shot stops" are random and depend a lot on the physical properties of the target and their willingness to continue to fight. (FIBS = Fudge, I've Been Shot for some, for others it has taken 30+ rounds.... shoot them until they change shape or start on fire!!)

This!

Cate

 

[Catherine1]

Don't forget cut shots. The whole thing is just a reason to argue. Put a shot of any round in the right place - game over.

Hello,

What do you mean by a CUT SHOT?

I do believe that if you put a shot of any round in the right place - the game will be over with one or more shots.

PLACEMENT is the key in my opinion. Plus they teach you that from the gitgo in most SELF DEFENSE and in other training classes.

TOO many people can't HIT jack squat or they spray and pray. They do NOT practice enough or just enough to QUALIFY in some of their professions.

IT depends on the person!

Or you have some OLD or YOUNG dude or dudette who choose to CARRY a handgun and he or she does not practice often or enough to be a safe, sane or proficient shooter worse off he or she barely CLEANS their own handgun!

Old Lady Cate

 

[seeker_two]

I think he means cut shells from a shotgun....

 

[paknheat]

I think he means cut shells from a shotgun....

Lol!! I can remember my dad rigging up some cut shells to play with back in the day.


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[Catherine1]

I think he means cut shells from a shotgun....

Thank you.

I never heard of this before.

I have only shot a FEW shotguns in my life back east and out here.

I personally never owned one but I did think about buying a shotgun on and off in the past.

Thanks again!

Old Lady Cate

 

[Moonpie]

Use what you have.

 

[hornetguy]

It seems to me that we often overlook a seemingly important item.... most of these studies are of police/military shootings, as this one was. In that scenario, I think the perp is more likely to be determined to end someone's life, whether it's victim or cop.
Adrenaline, determination, all of the above will likely play a part in "incapacitation".

In my opinion, none of us are likely to be involved in that kind of shooting. Most likely we will be facing a bad guy that is afraid of being shot, just like we are.

Nearly every video I've seen online, dealing with civilian shootings, has the perp turning tail and hauling ass as soon as the shooting starts.... many of them get hit, only to die outside in the parking lot... the main point is, seldom do they stand their ground and return fire.

My "bottom line" is, use the largest caliber you can confidently shoot, accurately and rapidly. If that is a .380 or a .22, so be it. Put the shots where they count, as quickly as you can.

 

[Moonpie]

IMO, the caliber of what you elect to carry isn't nearly as important as training/shooting what you carry.
AND THAT YOU CARRY IT.
.22, .25, .32, .380, whatever.
If you train and become proficient in its use you are ahead of the curve.
You might be Daniel Boone with that big heavy CZ75 but it is useless if it is home in the safe when you need it out there in the wild.
That itty-bitty NAA .22lr revolver in your pocket at the critical moment is worth ten times its weight in gold.

 

[Tnhawk]

That itty-bitty NAA .22lr revolver in your pocket at the critical moment is worth ten times its weight in gold.

My NAA .22 WMR has been in my pocket at times I would have otherwise had nothing. Small, but I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of it.

 

[benenglish]

...none of us are likely to be involved in that kind of shooting. Most likely we will be facing a bad guy that is afraid of being shot, just like we are.

Nearly every video I've seen online, dealing with civilian shootings, has the perp turning tail and hauling ass as soon as the shooting starts...

QFT.

People throw lots of shade at Active Self Protection for saying that there's no need to carry reloads when out and about. Their justification is for exactly the reasons you describe and I think those guys are right. If it's not in your job description to have a gun on or about your person then you will never be involved in an extended firefight. Any DGU you're involved in will most likely end as soon as the firearm is seen by the perp. If it goes past that, then the instant the first shot rings out, both sides will be actively trying to GTFO.

I suppose there are exceptions to everything but I've personally never seen or heard of or read about one in a "civilian shooting" on the street involving common criminals.

 

[Steve In Texas]

This thread really says our handguns are all over rated. They are only convenient and sufficient hits with them count. Clint Smiths observations that handguns are designed to get you back to rifle that was left elsewhere is most relevant. lt is just not practical to take my Tavor 7 as many places as my Glock goes.

 

[Steve In Texas]

People throw lots of shade at Active Self Protection for saying that there's no need to carry reloads when out and about.

I have used my backup magazine. I fell hard and odd which broke the base plate off my pistol. The backup magazine was comforting as I was not left with a single shot carry piece the balance of that journey.

As long as normal law and order holds that will be my single use of a backup magazine. I still carry a spare none the less.

 

[seeker_two]

I have used my backup magazine. I fell hard and odd which broke the base plate off my pistol. The backup magazine was comforting as I was not left with a single shot carry piece the balance of that journey.

As long as normal law and order holds that will be my single use of a backup magazine. I still carry a spare none the less.

Agreed. The spare mag is like a spare tire in case the mag in the gun malfunctions. And it's the reason I don't mind carrying single-stack mags....spread out your capacity.

Murphy seems to show up at the most inconvenient times....

 

[Txhighlander]

Agreed. The spare mag is like a spare tire in case the mag in the gun malfunctions. And it's the reason I don't mind carrying single-stack mags....spread out your capacity.

Murphy seems to show up at the most inconvenient times....

I always carry at least 2 reloads regardless of what I carry. The odds may say they would not have to be used but just look at all that happens these days. Odds change. I would rather be prepared and not need them than need them and not have them.

 

[benenglish]

Don't believe the myth...

I had to go back and read the history of this to understand context. My first thought was that you guys were disagreeing on what size buckshot to use in your 12 ga.