XM177E2/GAU-5

[Madcap]

Chris at Aquila couldn't match the Colt Upper with the H&R Lower I sent and had to send it back. Truly excellent to deal with, however. I'll try a relatively local shop within a reasonable distance and see what they say. I'd be happy with a standard "Colt XM Grey" understanding the match won't be perfect. I did find a company up North, but they were more expensive than practical for this project.

On a further note I hope to get a retro pencil returned this week that was shortened, pinned and welded to 16". Prior to giving to the gunsmith, I shaved the forging seams and bayonet lug off a couple FSB's which will be re- parked. I'll post some pics soon as I get it all back.

That's about it for now...

 

[baboon]

Chris at Aquila couldn't match the Colt Upper with the H&R Lower I sent and had to send it back. Truly excellent to deal with, however. I'll try a relatively local shop within a reasonable distance and see what they say. I'd be happy with a standard "Colt XM Grey" understanding the match won't be perfect. I did find a company up North, but they were more expensive than practical for this project.

On a further note I hope to get a retro pencil returned this week that was shortened, pinned and welded to 16". Prior to giving to the gunsmith, I shaved the forging seams and bayonet lug off a couple FSB's which will be re- parked. I'll post some pics soon as I get it all back.

That's about it for now...

If Chris can't get done & didn't recommend someone I think your going to be hard pressed to find someone.

 

[A1Oni]

Chris at Aquila couldn't match the Colt Upper with the H&R Lower I sent and had to send it back. Truly excellent to deal with, however. I'll try a relatively local shop within a reasonable distance and see what they say. I'd be happy with a standard "Colt XM Grey" understanding the match won't be perfect. I did find a company up North, but they were more expensive than practical for this project.

On a further note I hope to get a retro pencil returned this week that was shortened, pinned and welded to 16". Prior to giving to the gunsmith, I shaved the forging seams and bayonet lug off a couple FSB's which will be re- parked. I'll post some pics soon as I get it all back.

That's about it for now...

you can use moly resin or alumahyde for the "colt grey" however you will need to bake the parts, personally I find having anodized aluminum color match is an exercise in futility. because they will discolor overtime anyway.

 

[Madcap]

I understand the match won't be exact, I'm hoping to find a retro Colt "XM Grey" close to the period as long as it's not Black.
Thanks -

 

[Madcap]

...and the process continues.

Today I picked up a cut, P&W barrel, took it to my gunsmith buddy and tried attaching an FSB I shaved the bayonet lug and forge marks off only to discover the Palmetto barrel wasn't cut properly for the taper pins. As I drove one pin in OK the other refused to go past a certain point. Both pins were removed and discovered one barrel *groove was shorter that the other. I'm at the point of wondering why it's so difficult to find proper work done anymore. This disappointment also follows a purchase of a lightly used Troy XM177E2 with a factory misaligned FSB. The carbine seems to function ok so far but the rear sight windage has to be adjusted completely left to get on target. That repair will require machine work involving oversize redrilling and oversize taper pins installed after the FSB is properly locked down in jig.

To be clear it's been a satisfying learning experience but a frustrating one. I don't give up easily so will follow through with whatever it takes. My intention is to build an XM177E2 from an H&R Lower with an orig Colt A1 Upper then eventually a representative GAU-U5/A from H&R Slick Side Upper and H&R Lower. I know H&R didn't build either originally during Vietnam but finding all Colt components isn't that practical anymore. I thought i might have the Colt marking placed on the Troy XM but wait till at least the FSB is re-aligned first.

* Photo shows rear groove shorter than the front one. FSB slips and will not tighten up.... impressive Palmetto QC.

That's about all for now as if that isn't enough.

Later

 

[A1Oni]

what I do for barrels is get a new one and have the notches for the pins drilled, I've never had issues with barrels with FSBs though but it does happen on occasion.

 

[houstongun807]

If you end up finding a Troy, you're gonna end up paying a premium on it. Like some other folks said you can build one out or buy one straight from PSA for far less

 

[Madcap]

Nothing to add since last on the upper rcv. anodizing. However, to add to another saga I ordered a complete H&R Upper from PSA to simplify a GAU-5/5A representative build. It arrived with the upper receiver, chrome bolt group, chg handle barrel less the FSB. The FSP was slipped on then a PSA retro flash Hider/Compensator was P&W by gunsmith. Got it back from him and tried to pin the FSB and found the slots on the barrel were not drilled correctly from the factory and the FSB will not fit properly I emailed PSA and they're offering to look at it try and fix it. That's all I have at this point. Between a Troy XM177E2 FSB misalignment and this PSA factory barrel problem, I'm convinced dependable manufacturing is a lost art in this country.

 

[A1Oni]

Nothing to add since last on the upper rcv. anodizing. However, to add to another saga I ordered a complete H&R Upper from PSA to simplify a GAU-5/5A representative build. It arrived with the upper receiver, chrome bolt group, chg handle barrel less the FSB. The FSP was slipped on then a PSA retro flash Hider/Compensator was P&W by gunsmith. Got it back from him and tried to pin the FSB and found the slots on the barrel were not drilled correctly from the factory and the FSB will not fit properly I emailed PSA and they're offering to look at it try and fix it. That's all I have at this point. Between a Troy XM177E2 FSB misalignment and this PSA factory barrel problem, I'm convinced dependable manufacturing is a lost art in this country.

I think you just have shit luck

 

[Madcap]

On an off subject but more positive note I received a particular pistol I've wanted for over a year or more. The Browning Hi Power has clearly been my favorite pistol since first holding one 40+ years ago. Since then, I've had the privilege of caring for a few historical examples until selling them off over recent years.
Springfield Armory adopted a slightly improved version called the "SA-35" without changing the basic design and maintained the original classic style. Unfortunately, early production was plagued with malfunctions. Despite all the reported issues they were always unavailable and out of stock - until now. Out of curiosity I started searching for them again and found that they're finally available and apparently the early problems have been corrected. Reviews of the current production were more positive, and I felt confident enough to order one. Since I received it, it's had only 150 rounds through it so far and did have one initial failure to feed. Beyond that it's an absolute joy to shoot and very accurate. Trigger was OK out of the box - about 4.5 - 5 lbs. with a bit of creep after take-up which I'd like to improve.

Originally designed with a 13-round double stack mag. in 1935, Mecgar and Springfield have increased that to 15 rnds.. It's simply a beautiful piece that fits my hand as HI-Powers always do and I am delighted. This SA-35 helps keep my mind off some of the disappointments the retro AR builds are giving me anyway.

PSA replied with possible options to send the barrel in, but I hope they understand the flash hider and grenade ring have already been P&W'd. We'll see in the follow up.


EDIT: (Wed 11/0823) had hoped to see something from PSA about the barrel but nothing to date

 

[Madcap]

Been busy with so no time to add more progress but PSA support contacted me about the barrel and FSB. Great rep spoke at length and explained that I may have inadvertently swapped the FSB on the H&R barrel with another barrel. I removed two FSBs to grind off forge seams - and had them both parked - one from an H&R barrel and one Brownells. The H&R barrel was pinned & welded before the FSB was pinned so the flash hider/moderator needs to be removed before I can confirm correct fit.

 

[Madcap]

The H&R barrel will be sent to PSA after the holidays. I talked them a could days ago and they agreed to look at it and fix the problem even though the warranty was voided by cutting the barrel and adding the moderator. After I'd ground off the forge marks on two FSB's and had them reparked I thought maybe the H&R barrel and FSB might have been mixed up with a Brownells barrel, but the Brownells barrel didn't match the H&R barrl grooves at all. So, it appears the H&R barrel was incorrectly drilled with it's sight base. Hopefully the problem will finally be taken care of and I can move on.

Have a safe and happy holiday.

 

[majormadmax]

Any updates?

 

[Madcap]

Good timing - the H&R complete upper was return shipped a week ago by PSA, Monday the 8th. A text msg from PSA stated ..."it was rebuilt and test fired..." just had to drive the taper pins in deeper. Test targets included in the box."

I'm hoping the results of the "rebuild" prove satisfactory but driving the pins in deeper wasn't what I expected them to do. The original grooves that were supposed to be drilled to mate the FSB but obviously weren't the same length. If they say the repair is OK and they test fired it, I can only wait and see. I'll follow up in a few days.

 

[Madcap]

If you end up finding a Troy, you're gonna end up paying a premium on it. Like some other folks said you can build one out or buy one straight from PSA for far less

Actually found a Troy - it had issues with front sight base being installed offset. I wasn't sure what to do at first but ended up widening the upper receiver notch on one side for the barrel extension pin to correct the offset. Range testing proved satisfactory and was able to center the rear sight.

 

[deemus]

Please post pics when you get it together.

 

[Aus_Schwaben]

Our shift commander usually had a GAU 5 Colt but he was a 2nd Lt and I think our Flight Chief would have one as well. That was damn near 40 years ago...lol

They were the best for getting in and out of vehicle with.

Gun, Aircraft Unit..the Air Force and their naming system..geeze

You got that right - how in the world is a GAU-8 in the same category as a GAU-5?

 

[Madcap]

Please post pics when you get it together.

...will do

 

[majormadmax]

You got that right - how in the world is a GAU-8 in the same category as a GAU-5?

There is a bit of a difference...

 

[Madcap]

The H&R compete upper from PSA was tracked to arrive Friday UPS but didn't arrive till Monday. I can't express how impressed I am with PSA Customer Service. The communication was absolutely perfect, and the repair was completed within the same week it arrived. Turnaround would have been to less than two weeks total if UPS delivered on time but I'm not complaining. I'm way old school and compared to most of the quality of customer service we suffer these days, PSA and H&R was golden.

To recap:
The H&R pencil barrel from the complete upper was cut down and FSB removed. One pin was very hard to remove initially but finally got it out. I ground the FSB forge seams off and had it reparked like the original early Colt M16 FSB's. Following that the moderator was P&W'd but the gunsmith didn't attach the FSB so I figured no big deal and I'd reattah it myself, but one pin refused to fully drive in. I realized the size of the barrel grooves did not match apparently causing the problem. PSA was contacted, and they agreed to correct the problem despite the fact the barrel had been modified and which normally voided the warranty.

They also re-pinned and welded the moderator and apparently reparked the assembly. I didn't expect that at all. Test fire results were included also - I can't say enough how impressed I am.

Attachments are the result of the project. My goal was to build something similar to the Viet Nam USAF slick side GAU-5/A/A. The lower obviously is marked "XM177E2" - not "GAU-5/A/A". H&R apparently doesn't offer GAU-5 lowers or blank, stripped H&R retro lowers have never been in stock so settled for what was available.

Specs:
* H&R 12.7" "Airforce Rebuild" Slick Side Complete Upper, Gray, 1:12 Twist - (Cut Down - 16" P&W'd with PSA Faux Moderator)
* FSB Forge Seams Ground Off /Reparked
* H&R XM177E2 Blem Stripped Lower Grey (lower parts kit added)
* Replaced the H&R A1 Pistol Grip w/ Orig. Period Correct Colt Bakelite Grip
* Replaced Dust Cover with Retro Period Style
* DOD Stamp added through eBay purchase stamp
* Colt 20 rnd. Mag
* Wt. 5lb 8.7oz Without Mag
* Length: Stock Collapsed 30-5/8" / Extended 33-7/8"

I hope this covers most of it for now. Pending agreeable weather, I'd like to take it to the range Thursday with some 55gr .223.

Hope you enjoyed this part of the build. It's not a perfect example but it's been satisfying and a positive learning experience. I still have one more project surrounding an original Colt Upper Receiver that I'd like to build into an as accurate as possible XM177E2 clone with the 11.5" barrel.