VA Guardsman: we will not comply

[oldag]

I have researched it. The percentage of registered voters that participated in the 2016 election was roughly the same for both states at about 60%. Texas had a higher percentage turn out in 2018, attributable to the US Senate race. That was an anomaly for a mid-cycle election.

For everyone that keeps saying ‘we have to keep that from happening here’, I’m curious how many actually give time (not treasure) to their state party, county, and candidate efforts to win. That’s what the Ds Are really good at...raising money to pay people to lead and participate in grass roots motivation.

Whereas Rs in Texas typically take their votes for granted. Hell, Cruz didn’t take Beto seriously until it was almost too late.

And I have come to realize we must also support conservative candidates financially.

I had never contributed to anyone's campaign until W ran for president. And did not again for a while after. But that has changed.

To some degree, we must counter the Soros', Bloombergs and other out of state liberals.

 

[SlimJim]

Most everyone will have their own definition of last resort. My last resort is after all other remedies have been tried, to include moving to a state more favorable to 2A rights, if it came down to it. And the reason for that is because those powers not delegated to the federal government nor assigned to the people are reserved for the state.


The people of Virginia don’t have to convince themselves their actions are justified...they have to convince 330+M Americans in 49 other states that their actions are justified, because that is the court of public opinion that will try them.

In my mind, there are 2 problems with this. Constitutional Rights are for all citizens not just depending on what state you live in.

Right is right so it really doesn't matter how others in other states see it. As for despots and their actions, one could make a pretty good case that the federal govt. has been abusing people's rights for sometime now. I guess that is why states think it is ok. It is not limited to the 2A either. We have the deep state trying to get rid of a sitting president for Pete's sake.

One should not have to move to another state to exercise their Constitutional right. Just imagine what would happen if Trump was not president. Heck look at the insanity in CA.



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[Younggun]

You want to give LTC's the same protections and exemptions as retired LEO's. Ok go thru a 3-6 month training on laws, rules, shooting, and procedures. Then put in 15+ years on the force using what you have been taught and you can have those privileges.

Why should all of that be necessary to exercise a right, and why should that right be a privilege?


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[Big Green]

You want to give LTC's the same protections and exemptions as retired LEO's. Ok go thru a 3-6 month training on laws, rules, shooting, and procedures. Then put in 15+ years on the force using what you have been taught and you can have those privileges.

Not to demean the LTC folks but an 8 hr course and a mickey mouse qualifying course does not equal the training and experience. Just as in anything there are exceptions. Some LTC's take it seriously and practice and study the laws.

Another note, retired LEO's cannot open carry unless they are also LTC's

I’ll go the other way. Retired LEOs get no exemptions at all. If you are retired, you can part of the citizenry like everyone else.

 

[easy rider]

Not to demean the LTC folks but an 8 hr course and a mickey mouse qualifying course does not equal the training and experience. Just as in anything there are exceptions. Some LTC's take it seriously and practice and study the laws.

Not to demean training, but please explain to me where any of that is in the 2nd Amendment.

 

[jordanmills]

You want to give LTC's the same protections and exemptions as retired LEO's. Ok go thru a 3-6 month training on laws, rules, shooting, and procedures. Then put in 15+ years on the force using what you have been taught and you can have those privileges.

Not to demean the LTC folks but an 8 hr course and a mickey mouse qualifying course does not equal the training and experience. Just as in anything there are exceptions. Some LTC's take it seriously and practice and study the laws.

Another note, retired LEO's cannot open carry unless they are also LTC's

Which group has more criminal convictions per individual in a given time period?

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Yes I agree everyone has their Last Resort line in the sand that must be crossed before they will take up arms and fight, for self defense, defense of others, or defense of country.

I would like to remind everyone of a couple of things.

1. Any court challenges Will take at least 3 to 5 years before SCOTUS will make any ruling. If the case is a a criminal one, then You may have to spend that time waiting in prison.

2. In Virginia the registered number of Democrats outnumber the registered Republicans so Don’t expect any changes next election.
This is the same reason why a recall or impeachment won’t work on the governor.

3. The laws will be enforced until the law is repealed by SCOTUS. Which will take 3 to 5 years. even then SCOTUS may choose not to hear the case or they might find in favor of the Virginia governor.

What will you all do if SCOTUS finds in favor of the Virginia governor?

 

[jrbfishn]

You want to give LTC's the same protections and exemptions as retired LEO's. Ok go thru a 3-6 month training on laws, rules, shooting, and procedures. Then put in 15+ years on the force using what you have been taught and you can have those privileges.

Not to demean the LTC folks but an 8 hr course and a mickey mouse qualifying course does not equal the training and experience. Just as in anything there are exceptions. Some LTC's take it seriously and practice and study the laws.

Another note, retired LEO's cannot open carry unless they are also LTC's

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that there are people more special than any other or that rights are only conferred to certain people.
So, service equals citizen? No rights unless you serve? Like Starship Troopers?
Did you see in a later ST that speaking against the Federation was a hanging offense?

Is that the world you would prefer?
A world where the only rights you have are granted and licensed to you or to die for the interests of the elite?

Thank God for the 3% that were willing to try in the Revolution. To those that have died since then. And those that will.


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[Younggun]

Yes I agree everyone has their Last Resort line in the sand that must be crossed before they will take up arms and fight, for self defense, defense of others, or defense of country.

I would like to remind everyone of a couple of things.

1. Any court challenges Will take at least 3 to 5 years before SCOTUS will make any ruling. If the case is a a criminal one, then You may have to spend that time waiting in prison.

2. In Virginia the registered number of Democrats outnumber the registered Republicans so Don’t expect any changes next election.
This is the same reason why a recall or impeachment won’t work on the governor.

3. The laws will be enforced until the law is repealed by SCOTUS. Which will take 3 to 5 years. even then SCOTUS may choose not to hear the case or they might find in favor of the Virginia governor.

What will you all do if SCOTUS finds in favor of the Virginia governor?

1. Lower courts could rule against the law, it doesn’t have to stand until heard by SCOTUS. As far as it being “criminal”, pretty sure the government will view armed resistance as criminal also. Kind of a moot point. And you will once again be sitting in prison until your case is heard, only this time you will have a much bigger case to make that no only was the law unconstitutional, but your actions were justified despite not having allowed for the constitutional means of dealing with the issue to run its course.

2. The voting percentages have already been posted. If conservatives in Virginia are really that pissed off they can easily win by voter turnout.

3. See number 1.

Bonus question: I don’t live in Virginia, so I’ll probably just post about it on a Texas gun forum.


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[toddnjoyce]

In my mind, there are 2 problems with this. Constitutional Rights are for all citizens not just depending on what state you live in.

Right is right so it really doesn't matter how others in other states see it. As for despots and their actions, one could make a pretty good case that the federal govt. has been abusing people's rights for sometime now. I guess that is why states think it is ok. It is not limited to the 2A either. We have the deep state trying to get rid of a sitting president for Pete's sake.

One should not have to move to another state to exercise their Constitutional right. Just imagine what would happen if Trump was not president. Heck look at the insanity in CA.

Take a deep breath and don’t take this next statement personally, I’m using the thought as a springboard.

Most everyone wants their rights unabridged and, deep down, they want to regulate rights so that others can’t fully exercise them, generally when it comes to moral, religious, or behavioral issues.

FrEx, Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Most everybody agrees with that and it seems relatively non-controversial.

Until someone asks ‘what defines a religion’.

In fiercely expanding that protection from the government as a right of the people, courts have ruled pretty much anything can be a religion. That’s how you end up with the Jim Jones’, the David Koresh’s, Sister Wives, and followers of His Noodly Appendage and as well as various other unrecognized religions.

So to prevent diluting what a religion is, there must be some test or other framework that can be used to define what a religion is, just so the Government can prevent pedophilia and other such behaviors from being enshrined and protected for the greater good of the society.

As for the rest about states and such, recall that all powers not delegated to the federal government and not prohibited to the state belong to the state. The words I just used are important because unless a power is specifically assigned somewhere else, that power lays at the state. An example of that would be in Printz v US, where the federal Brady Act requirement for local LEOs to perform background checks was determined to be unconstitutional, as that portion of the act was seen to commandeer state governments into the service of the federal government, which is wholly unconstitutional.

That anti-commandeering philosophy combined with constitutionality of regulating rights, powers, and behaviors is how you end up with the ability to tightly regulate alcohol in Utah and guns in California.

In probably the founders’ most under appreciated forethought, the ability to travel freely amongst the states and resettle is a built in pop-off valve of sorts that works to allow 50 separate laboratories to experiment how to govern best according to the people being governed.

I’ll finish with my particular nit; some people in Texas want to ‘legalize’ in some fashion marijuana. I don’t want it legal and it doesn’t matter why. What does matter is that the federal government can’t keep people from leaving for greener pastures if they can’t get what they want locally.

So yeah, I’m all people for should move if they don’t agree with the restrictions their state places upon them. And for a lot more reasons than stated above.

 

[kbaxter60]

the ability to travel freely amongst the states and resettle is a built in pop-off valve of sorts that works to allow 50 separate laboratories to experiment how to govern best according to the people being governed.

Yeah, I was pretty much with you on your whole line of thought until that part. It sounds good in print, but what I think we really get is a pop-off valve that gets used when the 50 labs are trying to see who can screw up the worst. Just look at the train wrecks that are CA, IL, and NY (and even WA, where we lived until fairly recently). We used our freedom of mobility to get out of the freak show that was WA and we DID move to better (TX).
That said, I do WISH they were all vying to see who could govern BEST. It really sounds nice; really it does.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Yeah, I was pretty much with you on your whole line of thought until that part. It sounds good in print, but what I think we really get is a pop-off valve that gets used when the 50 labs are trying to see who can screw up the worst. Just look at the train wrecks that are CA, IL, and NY (and even WA, where we lived until fairly recently). We used our freedom of mobility to get out of the freak show that was WA and we DID move to better (TX).
That said, I do WISH they were all vying to see who could govern BEST. It really sounds nice; really it does.

I can respect that; I'm a believer in that government governs best which governs least and with a part-time legislature that meets every other year for less than five months, I'm pretty damn happy.

I'd like to have a different constitution, but that's wishful thinking right now.

 

[SlimJim]

I can respect that; I'm a believer in that government governs best which governs least and with a part-time legislature that meets every other year for less than five months, I'm pretty damn happy.

I'd like to have a different constitution, but that's wishful thinking right now.

A different Constitution is not needed but rather different people in elected positions is needed. People who understand civics, the law, and the Constitution. The problem is as we go further in history, that gets harder and harder. I am not gonna reply to your other post because I don't want to get off in the weeds with hypocritical people, marijuana and religion. What will Virginian gun owners do if and when LE and/or the Natl. Guard come for their prior lawful weapons? They can be like Australia and turn them in like good lil' subjects.

No deep breath necessary. I am actually on vacay in Israel and passing time in the hotel now that our day is over. Shalom.

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[oldag]

Maybe we just need jurists who will uphold the Constitution, rather than what they wish the Constitution said.

 

[toddnjoyce]

A different Constitution is not needed but rather different people in elected positions is needed.

I’m speaking of the Texas Constitution. While I appreciate the restrictiveness of the 1876 constitution, it’s close to 90,000 words long and has been amended more than 500 times. That kind of defeats the purpose of a constitution, in my mind.

 

[TheDan]

Seems like som here are running Fitbit marathons just thinking about a chance to live out their LARP fantasies.

right? How many of y'all wanting to boogaloo do any gardening?

So, service equals citizen? No rights unless you serve? Like Starship Troopers?

In the context that there are citizens and not, this makes more sense to me than what we have now.

Of course that is just fiction... We're all born free persons, and made vassals occasionally by choice but most often by force.

 

[mroper]

Yes I agree everyone has their Last Resort line in the sand that must be crossed before they will take up arms and fight, for self defense, defense of others, or defense of country.

I would like to remind everyone of a couple of things.

1. Any court challenges Will take at least 3 to 5 years before SCOTUS will make any ruling. If the case is a a criminal one, then You may have to spend that time waiting in prison.

2. In Virginia the registered number of Democrats outnumber the registered Republicans so Don’t expect any changes next election.
This is the same reason why a recall or impeachment won’t work on the governor.

3. The laws will be enforced until the law is repealed by SCOTUS. Which will take 3 to 5 years. even then SCOTUS may choose not to hear the case or they might find in favor of the Virginia governor.

What will you all do if SCOTUS finds in favor of the Virginia governor?

A Federal Judge could always put an injunction of them enforcing the laws while it is played out in the courts .

 

[2ManyGuns]

What kind of gardening? I do veggies. Spent the last 2 days building raised bed planters.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

A Federal Judge could always put an injunction of them enforcing the laws while it is played out in the courts .

yes a federal judge could. But to do so would require someone to file a suite. Depending on what the law suit is, and who filed it, would be how the judge would impose the injunction.

 

[easy rider]

Remember, these are proposed new laws, not actual laws yet. Law suits will follow if and when they become law.