Can a rifle be carried openly in public

[winchster]

You asked what tactics we currently use (more specifically how Officer Gummer would respond) and then you insult me. Fair trade I guess, no wait that's not.

If YOU went to a call with a subject with a rifle and you approached without any weapon at the ready or at least unholstered, you would be at the mercy of the unknown person with a rifle, hoping you can draw and return fire before he empties a magazing into your torso, shredding your body and killing you. Here is a feel good video you would view in the police academy-

Full Verison Texas DPS Trooper killed after shots fired - YouTube


You train on approaching an armed subject with superior firepower, numbers, and tactics. Will luck on your side, you may not get killed. Have you ever served in the military or seen people shot or otherwise killed up close?

If you are telling me that I approach a situation with an armed subject with superior firepower and my rifle ready, and you disagree with my position, I dare say you have little or no tactical training or experience. And yes my training and patrol experience is only in Austin. I am assuming you think negatively of my department.

You qualify your critique of an experienced police officer by stating you heard STORIES from your father who was an LEO. My experience is from 7 years as an airborne infantryman and leader, plus the last 10 years as a patrol officer, street supervisor, and detective in my department.

Your opinion is duly noted and hopefully I have shed some light on proper tactics when facing an armed threat.
In case you did not notice, several law enforcement PRACTITIONERS have chimed in. Maybe if you don't trust a veteran soldier and police officer with nearly two decades of tactical and combat experience you will listen to others.

But this is the internet where everybody knows somebody elses job better than they do.

That video is not even relevant to the discussion, that is not the same as an individual walking down the street in downtown anywhere with. Rifle slung on his shoulder. The problem seems to be, you and several others, want to treat both incidents the same. And that is what is so disturbing to some of us.

 

[Burt Gummer]

WTH made you say that? Completely uncalled for.

Not uncalled for. I was calling him out as a vet.

 

[Burt Gummer]

That video is not even relevant to the discussion, that is not the same as an individual walking down the street in downtown anywhere with. Rifle slung on his shoulder. The problem seems to be, you and several others, want to treat both incidents the same. And that is what is so disturbing to some of us.

It displays how a man with a rifle in his possession can go from holding it to shooting you in the face and throat and taking your life within seconds.
It is not the same as carryig a rifle in public with no criminal intent, it does display why I expressed tactics we use to address a subject with a rifle. When you confront an armed subject you need to have the right mindset and carry out sound tactics.

 

[Burt Gummer]

WTH made you say that? Completely uncalled for.

Not uncalled for. I was calling him out as a vet. I expressed my experience with tactics and weapons and he attempted to negate my experience by claiming he was a vet. Being a veteran does not negate someone elses performance or skills, it can be used to express ones experience.

 

[winchster]

Not uncalled for. I was calling him out as a vet.

I'm thinking it was the snarky comment about pride that Glockster was referring to. Not everyone that served feels the need to chest thump as much as you seem to want to.

 

[winchster]

It displays how a man with a rifle in his possession can go from holding it to shooting you in the face and throat and taking your life within seconds.
It is not the same as carryig a rifle in public with no criminal intent, it does display why I expressed tactics we use to address a subject with a rifle. When you confront an armed subject you need to have the right mindset and carry out sound tactics.

Again, it's not relevant. The guy in the video wasn't walking down the street. He was driving. He exited the vehicle with the weapon at low ready. Complete apples and oranges scenarios here and you know it. And again, the fact that you believe the two scenarios deserve the same tactic is disturbing.


ETA: reread and I see where you do admit they're different scenarios. However you then again ask us to believe the same tactic is necessary.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I'm thinking it was the snarky comment about pride that Glockster was referring to. Not everyone that served feels the need to chest thump as much as you seem to want to.

I am proud of my service, hard work, and dedication to my duties over the last two decades. When qualifying knowledge and experience you sometimes need to express things in a straighforward manner.


Hopefully my experiences on killing and facing armed opponents don't offend anybody on this gun forum.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Again, it's not relevant. The guy in the video wasn't walking down the street. He was driving. He exited the vehicle with the weapon at low ready. Complete apples and oranges scenarios here and you know it. And again, the fact that you believe the two scenarios deserve the same tactic is disturbing.

Different levels of experience.

 

[Burt Gummer]

The OP asked about open carry of a rifle and I think it has been addressed thorougly. If others can share their experiences with open rifle carry I think it would benefit more than trashing each other.

 

[Younggun]

Not uncalled for. I was calling him out as a vet. I expressed my experience with tactics and weapons and he attempted to negate my experience by claiming he was a vet. Being a veteran does not negate someone elses performance or skills, it can be used to express ones experience.

Calling me out? Claiming? Who are you to call anyone out for anything?



IME those who talk the most did the least. I'll leave it at that.

 

[winchster]

Different levels of experience.

My point exactly. Your experience as a combat troop has apparently jaded you to the point of not believing a man can exercise his God given right, protected in our great state, to openly carry a rifle ( in this case slung ) without posing a threat to you as a LEO. Maybe you should look into a different line of work.

 

[Younggun]

Different levels of experience.

That has nothing to do with your comparison of a man coming out of a vehicle with rifle at low ready and a man walking down the street with a rifle slung on his shoulder.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Calling me out? Claiming? Who are you to call anyone out for anything?



IME those who talk the most did the least. I'll leave it at that.

Your opportunity to provide real world experiences has passed. You spent all your time questioning and MMQB'ing my experiences.
Carry on.

 

[Burt Gummer]

That has nothing to do with your comparison of a man coming out of a vehicle with rifle at low ready and a man walking down the street with a rifle slung on his shoulder.

Do you see a different threat level? The capacity to engage you is there no matter what position the rifle is carried at. His action will beat your reaction most of the time. If he is smiling instead of grimacing does that reduce his threat potential? If he has a 5.56 mm rifle instead of a 7.62mm does that make the threat less to you at close range?

 

[Burt Gummer]

My point exactly. Your experience as a combat troop has apparently jaded you to the point of not believing a man can exercise his God given right, protected in our great state, to openly carry a rifle ( in this case slung ) without posing a threat to you as a LEO. Maybe you should look into a different line of work.

We must respond to persons with guns on a weekly or daily basis sir, you address the threat as necessary. As Ive stated before I have no problem with legal carry, I had my CHL long before my badge. But as a uniformed officer you must address the threat. The difficult part oflaw enforcement is knowing intent of somebody. Can he be a nice guy or is he high and looking to shoot somebody and I just responded to a 9-1-1 call about him?
If you have a son or daughter who is a police officer , would you tell him/her to respond to that 9-1-1 call where there is an unknown subject in a city triggering people to call 9-1-1 and approach with their hands down? Just wave at the subject and hope for the best? Or would you express sound tactics to conduct their investigation?

 

[Burt Gummer]

I was notified by several LEO's on here that comments regarding police experience would be greeted by a few this way and I am not surprised. But those who carry guns and enjoymfreedom deserve to know how and whynthings work in th criminal justice system.
It seems that so many posts are about asking advice or taking shots at people without providing any real or articulable experience on law enforcement and the daily duties of those who enforce the law, arrest suspects, and write the affidavits to keep people safe at night(when law enforcement oriented).

But it has been enlightening to exchange thoughts and information. Hopefully some will find it useful and use it to protect what they value one day or keep themselves out of jail.

 

[Charlie]

Good luck.

 

[winchster]

If you have a son or daughter who is a police officer , would you tell him/her to respond to that 9-1-1 call where there is an unknown subject in a city triggering people to call 9-1-1 and approach with their hands down? Just wave at the subject and hope for the best? Or would you express sound tactics to conduct their investigation?

There's a difference in approaching, hands down, waving and blissfully unaware of danger and

.And say Officer Gummer gets dispatched to "man in street carrying rifle" call. Well units will meet nearby and unrack our shotguns or in my case my patrol rifle (M4) and approach subject with rifle. He may be guy trying to take a nice stroll or he may have just murdered his family, we don't know.
We approach and watch his reactions. If he changes from normal to defensive or unslings his rifle, we will need to act fast and deploy our long guns. We will disarm him at gunpoint.

Do you approach a traffic stop with weapon drawn? Again, keep in mind, the person we are describing is NOT breaking any laws. If the gun is slung, he can't possibly be carrying in a manner to calculate alarm.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Good luck.

Thanks Charlie. I love my job and what I do.

 

[Burt Gummer]

There's a difference in approaching, hands down, waving and blissfully unaware of danger and



Do you approach a traffic stop with weapon drawn? Again, keep in mind, the person we are describing is NOT breaking any laws. If the gun is slung, he can't possibly be carrying in a manner to calculate alarm.

I appreciate the questions winchester, but too many here are just using this as an opportunity to act silly. I'm not sure anything I say will change anybody's mind. How would you handle your situational questions as apolice officer? I seem to have been answering all of the questions here lately.