6 dead, dying or obsolete handgun cartridges. An article by Field n Stream.

[satx78247]

A problem does exist, it's called the 9mm!
I have more faith in a 22lr cartridge stopping a threat than any 9mm cartridge.

Txhillbilly,

My friend Hoji & I usually agree on most gun topics but I disagree with him on the .40S&W, especially since that nations that outlaw or "severely restrict" the 9x19mm AND .45ACP ALLOW the .38SUPER & .40S&W.
(ImVho, either the .38SUPER +P+ or the .40S&W is SUPERIOR in every way to ANY SAFE LOAD in the 9x19mm as a STOPPER.)

yours, satx

 

[oldag]

But wait, didn't you hear that the advancements in bullets have made them (9mm) equal to larger calibers....

 

[satx78247]

FWIW, I didn't know that F&S was still being published. - The last copy that I saw at the FSH barber shop was about a decade old.

yours, satx

 

[Hoji]

A problem does exist, it's called the 9mm!
I have more faith in a 22lr cartridge stopping a threat than any 9mm cartridge.

100 gr Sellier & Bellot “Polizei “ round. Soft point. Fired from a Ruger PCC it penetrated over 20” of wet, compressed corrugated cardboard.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Out of a 16" barrel?

What about out of a 4" barrel?

 

[deemus]

32 and 40 S&W aren't going anywhere. The rest? Maybe. 25 and 41 likely.

 

[Hoji]

Out of a 16" barrel?

What about out of a 4" barrel?

Over 16” penetration out of Glock 19

 

[popper]

9mm 115 factory and 40sw 165gr (950 fps) cast recovered from rock pile. Weight loss of 40 was negligible. 9s were not very deep into the pile. Bottom is what was left of 165gr 308W. The 40 load goes rear to front, breaks leg and exited jaw, 150# hog @ 25 yds. Love my 40s.
Met a guy with a 38-40 revolver, his 'farm' carry gun. Basically old version of 40sw. Works for him.

 

[motorcarman]

I found almost a thousand cast 40 S&W 200 grain FP in the bargain bin at a local PAWN SHOP marked P+T Partners Combine TX.
I got all for about $45.

The 38 WCF uses the same .401 bullets so I just use them in my Win 1892.

If the 40 S&W 'goes-away' I still have a lifetime supply of 38WCF cast lead FP.

 

[dsgrey]

I've got a little 32acp that's great for minimal clothing and better than carrying a stick. Not sure 32acp will disappear completely since I've heard something similar for 25 auto for many years.

 

[Wolfwood]

I went back and timed it from the moment he started to come out the door....... 3 SECONDS!!!

The idea of a contact shot is why I started carrying a revolver in the woods. A semi might get a slide related jam/FTC and more than one shot could be very important.

another reason i like those fixed barrel 32s and 380s.

 

[Texasjack]

It would be a miracle if we could have a discussion on pistol calibers without someone pointing out that "bigger and faster is better". Statistically, most people killed by pistol fire die from bleeding out, not dropping dead from the impact, as depicted on TV and movies. Statistically, a lot of people die from .25 caliber pistols because a lot of low-lifes carry crappy little pistols and frequently shoot each other over drug deals and such.

There was a shooting range south of Houston that I visited many years ago. Inside was a stuffed brown bear - allegedly the New Mexico record size at the time it was shot. The owner of the store was camping out with his hunting party when the bear entered the camp and attacked them. He shot it 11 times at close range with a .44 Magnum. (At one point, he was scrambling up the rocks and frantically reloading.) The bear would get hit, go down, and then get back up madder than before until the last bullet finally finished him off.

Lewis & Clark recorded a bear that was killed with the pellet gun they had. It was a really cool gun, even by today's standards, but mostly an extremely lucky shot. Shot placement has much more value than most "experts" will accept.

The much-maligned .40 S&W is a very decent cartridge that sits in the range of excellent pistol cartridges. That is to say that these cartridges are powerful enough to be good for self defense and are still very manageable for nearly any shooter. These would include .38 sp, .357 mag, .45 ACP, 9 mm, and .45 LC. There are plenty of others in this range, but this is a set of credible examples. And, yeah, there are people who love their .44 Mags and .50 AEs and such, but they belong in a category of "kills on one end, wounds on the other". The FBI went to the .40 because the 10 mm was just too much for many of their agents to manage. (I didn't say women, and the FBI won't say women, but likely it was women.) The FBI spent years using .38 specials with good results, but when they tried to go up against big firepower (semiauto rifles), they lost, and they would have lost with 10 mm as well. Most people could figure that equation out, but that's not how government agencies work.

Cartridges "die" because people move away from guns that shoot those cartridges. The little "Saturday Night Special" stuff is fading because there are small, great quality pistols in .380 and 9mm. The .45 LC should have died decades ago, but it found a revival in Cowboy Action Shooting. Thumb through a copy of Cartridges of the World and it's amazing how many cartridges were invented and died off in the first 100 years of cartridges. It's just a Darwinian "Survival of the Fittest" thing. We need a range of pistol cartridges, and the more popular cartridges can fill that range. Nothing was lost by the death of the .45 Schofield.

 

[motorcarman]

Nothing was lost by the death of the .45 Schofield.

Except that it is the best case to make WEBLEY .455 ammo by trimming.

When the Webley cases can't be found, Star-Line Schofield cases come to the rescue!!!

 

[Axxe55]

I have read and heard the same thing for several decades of certain cartridges going away. They were wrong then, and they are still wrong!

 

[oldag]

It would be a miracle if we could have a discussion on pistol calibers without someone pointing out that "bigger and faster is better". Statistically, most people killed by pistol fire die from bleeding out, not dropping dead from the impact, as depicted on TV and movies. Statistically, a lot of people die from .25 caliber pistols because a lot of low-lifes carry crappy little pistols and frequently shoot each other over drug deals and such.

There was a shooting range south of Houston that I visited many years ago. Inside was a stuffed brown bear - allegedly the New Mexico record size at the time it was shot. The owner of the store was camping out with his hunting party when the bear entered the camp and attacked them. He shot it 11 times at close range with a .44 Magnum. (At one point, he was scrambling up the rocks and frantically reloading.) The bear would get hit, go down, and then get back up madder than before until the last bullet finally finished him off.

Lewis & Clark recorded a bear that was killed with the pellet gun they had. It was a really cool gun, even by today's standards, but mostly an extremely lucky shot. Shot placement has much more value than most "experts" will accept.

And does anyone think the bear would have been taken down sooner by a .25 or .32?

How many people die from a .25 is also a red herring when discussing the more effective defensive rounds.

Which makes a bigger hole and does more damage to vessels, nerves, etc. - a .25 or a .44? Especially when that .44 HP opens up to about 1" diameter.

It would be a miracle if we could have a discussion about pistol calibers without someone trying to justify the tiny calibers.

 

[Axxe55]

And does anyone think the bear would have been taken down sooner by a .25 or .32?

How many people die from a .25 is also a red herring when discussing the more effective defensive rounds.

Which makes a bigger hole and does more damage to vessels, nerves, etc. - a .25 or a .44? Especially when that .44 HP opens up to about 1" diameter.

It would be a miracle if we could have a discussion about pistol calibers without someone trying to justify the tiny calibers.

Not going to justify smaller calibers, but there was a time some years ago, when if a person needed a smaller pistol, smaller calibers were more prevalent in the smaller pistols.

Today, we have much better choices when choosing a smaller pistol for self defense, in much larger calibers. Today, a person can pocket carry a 9mm that is very close in size to small pistols in 25.

Given a choice, I'd opt for a small pistol in 9mm over a 25 any day of the week. For self defense, larger is sometime better. Bigger holes bleed out faster, and do more tissue damage than smaller rounds.

 

[bbbass]

I have long held with the philosophy, shoot the largest caliber you can control and accurately. The largest caliber will differ from one person to the next.

Hitting the bad guy with 22's, still out ranks missing him with a 44!

This is the Golden Rule!!

I've got a little 32acp that's great for minimal clothing and better than carrying a stick. Not sure 32acp will disappear completely since I've heard something similar for 25 auto for many years.

The first pistol I owned was a .32acp nickle plated Beretta. It was a wonderful lil gun. I wish I still had it!!

another reason i like those fixed barrel 32s and 380s.

Not sure which those are.... Cougar and Tomcat??? I really like those but have never shot one. I guess if one is going to stick the pistol in somebody's ear and pull the trigger, a fixed barrel is highly desirable.

It would be a miracle if we could have a discussion about pistol calibers without someone trying to justify the tiny calibers.

How's this justification? .... I have very bad arthritis in both hands, esp at the base of the thumb. Used to shoot .45acp in USPSA Limited. A Level 1 match averages 280rds. And I was scarfing Ibuprofen for 3-4 days after a match. When I switched to IDPA, I was able to shoot 9mm with no Power Factor penalty. Those matches are 85-120rds, but my hands still hurt all afternoon and the next day. So, for plinking and fun, I now shoot a .22lr Ruger Mark IV Lite. No suffering afterwards.

I still EDC 9mm.... am I a pussy? If so, I don't care. Ya do what ya gotta do. Would more practice take me back to shooting .45acp? I doubt it. And it's not worth it to me.

 

[oldag]

How's this justification? .... I have very bad arthritis in both hands, esp at the base of the thumb. Used to shoot .45acp in USPSA Limited. A Level 1 match averages 280rds. And I was scarfing Ibuprofen for 3-4 days after a match. When I switched to IDPA, I was able to shoot 9mm with no Power Level penalty. Those matches are 85-120rds, but my hands still hurt all afternoon and the next day. So, for plinking and fun, I now shoot a .22lr Ruger Mark IV Lite. No suffering afterwards.

I still EDC 9mm.... am I a pussy? If so, I don't care. Ya do what ya gotta do. Would more practice take me back to shooting .45acp? I doubt it. And it's not worth it to me.

So do we have to list every possible exception to the rule? Obviously if someone cannot physically handle the larger calibers, there is no choice. Don't take it personally.

 

[bbbass]

So do we have to list every possible exception to the rule? Obviously if someone cannot physically handle the larger calibers, there is no choice. Don't take it personally.

Caliber discussions always get messy... just doing my part to keep the tradition going.

 

[Moonpie]

RAFFS in .30 Herrett!