Ahmaud Arbery - The Trial

[TX OMFS]

I would never put myself into such a situation trying to make a “citizens arrest”.

It’s not why I carry, YMMV


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree. Greg McMichaels, being a retired LEO, may have been more comfortable. Does TX have citizen's arrest?


ETA: Yes, TX allows citizen's arrest.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/CR/htm/CR.14.htm

 

[Renegade]

I think it comes down to whether or not the McMichaels were justified to pursue & try to arrest or hold Arbery. If they were not justified then Arbery has every right to fight them, the McMichaels would be the instigating party. If the McMichaels were justified in the pursuit & confrontation then they won't be guilty of the death.

This is how I see it.

Not sure why Arbery went out of his way to attack a man pointing a shotgun at him. He chose poorly.

 

[deemus]

Do we know how far away Arbory lived from the neighborhood he got attacked in?

 

[jrbfishn]

Did the house have a for sale sign?
Living around a military town my whole life, seeing people looking at houses under construction is not at all uncommon. Especially if there is a for sale sign. We played in them as kids. A big framed house with a basement mad a fun playground.
When I took drafting in college, looking at different phases helped understand what went into them and why.
Were the doors hung and locked?
Was he obviously carrying anything away from the house?
Did he have permission to be there?
Unless they knew he was there illegally, there was no cause for an arrest. Citizen or otherwise.


Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Renegade]

Did the house have a for sale sign?
Living around a military town my whole life, seeing people looking at houses under construction is not at all uncommon. Especially if there is a for sale sign. We played in them as kids. A big framed house with a basement mad a fun playground.

Arbery is not a kid.

When I took drafting in college, looking at different phases helped understand what went into them and why.

Arbery was not a college student taking drafting classes.

Were the doors hung and locked?
Was he obviously carrying anything away from the house?
Did he have permission to be there?
Unless they knew he was there illegally, there was no cause for an arrest. Citizen or otherwise.

OP posted video of the house.

 

[jrbfishn]

I watched the videos.
He did not break in, it was open.
Should he have been there? No.
Did he commit a felony? Does not appear to.
He recognized Arbery. Why not stop and let the police investigate?
Where was the justification for use of force let alone for lethal force?
From what I saw in the video, if you cut me off with a vehicle and pull a weapon and cut off my escape from the situation, I'm going to fight back too. At that point I'm going to consider I don't have much to lose.
They were stupid and made a bunch of mistakes. Mistakes the father at least should have seen coming.
I admit, there may be evidence we don't know about that would change things either way about who was right or wrong. There were other choices that would have resulted in a far better out come than were made. They dug the hole they get to try to climb out of. I have no sympathy for them.
If I were on a jury with the evidence we have, they would be SOL.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Renegade]

From what I saw in the video, if you cut me off with a vehicle and pull a weapon and cut off my escape from the situation, I'm going to fight back too.

I guess we watched different videos. Of the 360 degrees he could have run, he chose the one where the guy was pointing a shotgun at him, and then chose to attack him by grabbing BBL. I would have chosen the opposite direction.

Classic case of 3 contestants playing stupid games, and winning stupid prizes.

 

[kbaxter60]

I watched the videos.
He did not break in, it was open.
Should he have been there? No.
Did he commit a felony? Does not appear to.
He recognized Arbery. Why not stop and let the police investigate?
Where was the justification for use of force let alone for lethal force?
From what I saw in the video, if you cut me off with a vehicle and pull a weapon and cut off my escape from the situation, I'm going to fight back too. At that point I'm going to consider I don't have much to lose.
They were stupid and made a bunch of mistakes. Mistakes the father at least should have seen coming.
I admit, there may be evidence we don't know about that would change things either way about who was right or wrong. There were other choices that would have resulted in a far better out come than were made. They dug the hole they get to try to climb out of. I have no sympathy for them.
If I were on a jury with the evidence we have, they would be SOL.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Pretty much all you said all made sense. My issue is that the media is playing us again. All of us.
They say "he was out for his morning run". Now, I look at the video and think "does your morning run take you through a house under construction?" They keep showing the pic of that nice young man in the bow tie. Does he have prior convictions? What for?
Bottom line: I prefer that the media stay OUT of it. They only want to use to run their agenda.
Let it go to a court of law. Let a jury of the mens' peers hear the actual evidence and make a decision on guilt. THEN, the media can tell us what was found. Not what they want us to believe. The facts from the trial.

 

[jrbfishn]

I guess we watched different videos. Of the 360 degrees he could have run, he chose the one where the guy was pointing a shotgun at him, and then chose to attack him by grabbing BBL. I would have chosen the opposite direction.

Classic case of 3 contestants playing stupid games, and winning stupid prizes.

If he was attacking he was doing it awful damn slow. Looked to me like he was jogging and got cut off.
And he went around the truck, not AT the man with a gun. And was then cut off at the front of the truck by an attacker.
And I'm not a criminal defense attorney or professional investigator.

Pretty much all you said all made sense. My issue is that the media is playing us again. All of us.
They say "he was out for his morning run". Now, I look at the video and think "does your morning run take you through a house under construction?" They keep showing the pic of that nice young man in the bow tie. Does he have prior convictions? What for?
Bottom line: I prefer that the media stay OUT of it. They only want to use to run their agenda.
Let it go to a court of law. Let a jury of the mens' peers hear the actual evidence and make a decision on guilt. THEN, the media can tell us what was found. Not what they want us to believe. The facts from the trial.

When is the media not playing us anymore?
I agree. It will not be settled out of court. But I would not give 2cents for their chances of staying out of jail. Either way, their future is shit.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Renegade]

If he was attacking he was doing it awful damn slow. Looked to me like he was jogging and got cut off.

Huh, he must have been 50 yards or so behind the stopped truck, and continued to run towards it. Seriously we are not watching the same video. Twitter video shows it took Arbery 15 seconds to catch up to the stopped truck.

And he went around the truck, not AT the man with a gun. And was then cut off at the front of the truck by an attacker.

After he caught up to truck, Twitter video at 17/18/19 seconds show he took a wide berth then suddenly cut left towards front of truck, where they met and shot was fired and struggle ensued. So yes, he certainly went AT the man with the gun.

 

[candcallen]

There were no recent burglaries.

The former cop had a history with this guy he hid or lied about thru omission.

They had a 3rd guy in a second car follow to film.

They are phucked as any of us would be in this instance. They had no right or business chasing this guy.

If you pull a long gun on me, long slow draw, near me that close I'm going to grab the gun. Running away seems to get you shot in the back. Especially after you chased me down you started this confrontation .

 

[Renegade]

If you pull a long gun on me, long slow draw, near me that close I'm going to grab the gun. Running away seems to get you shot in the back. Especially after you chased me down you started this confrontation .

Even if the gun is pulled from over 50 yards away? You are still going to run towards him for 15+ seconds and try and take it away?

I do not understand Arbery strategy. Perhaps he did not see gun till he was on passenger side of vehicle. Even then he still ran towards danger for no apparent reason.

 

[Jon Payne]

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf


This is the only document I have read so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Renegade]

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf

Here is another, from resp officer.

 

[pronstar]

What irks me is the media account of “innocent jogger killed by gunman”.

Dude was chilling in a construction site where he shouldn’t have been.

Prolly shouldn’t have been confronted or killed, either, but that’s for the courts to decide.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jrbfishn]

Or perhaps you are seeing what you want to see. I'm seeing a guy, seems fairly relaxed and jogging thinking he is doing nothing wrong, suddenly boxed in and being attack by multiple armed people.
I certainly don't see an unarmed criminal fleeing and then attacking armed people for no reason.
And a follow up car to film it????
Premeditation? Or follow me and film me being superman?
Or see how stupid I can be?
Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Renegade]

Or perhaps you are seeing what you want to see. I'm seeing a guy, seems fairly relaxed and jogging thinking he is doing nothing wrong, suddenly boxed in and being attack by multiple armed people.

Then his actions are even more bizarre.

He is on video trespassing in a house, so the "doing nothing wrong" narrative is off the table.

JonPayne doc gives a good view of how the DA saw it.

 

[candcallen]

Even if the gun is pulled from over 50 yards away? You are still going to run towards him for 15+ seconds and try and take it away?

I do not understand Arbery strategy. Perhaps he did not see gun till he was on passenger side of vehicle. Even then he still ran towards danger for no apparent reason.

That's not the situation here. Two guys chase him down, he didnt run towards danger till they were a few yards apart and he realized what was up and had to make a decision.

The dead man carries no blame for his death, they attacked him. They carry the blame for everything that happened after they chased him down.

 

[mongoose]

Then his actions are even more bizarre.

He is on video trespassing in a house, so the "doing nothing wrong" narrative is off the table.

JonPayne doc gives a good view of how the DA saw it.

How do you know he was trespassing? Did you see any signs or was he given verbal notice?

 

[Renegade]

That's not the situation here. Two guys chase him down, he didnt run towards danger

The video clearly shows the two men 50 yards ahead of him in truck and he ran for 15 seconds in their direction. So yeah, he ran towards danger for quite some time. Perhaps he did not realize it was danger till it was too late, but it is indisputable he ran towards them for some time.