Blackhawk SERPA Holsters, simply not worth the risk!

[stalker19]

Safariland ALS is everything the Derpa wishes it was.

Serpa is crap. Period. Just like everything Blackhawk makes, from grenade pouches to holsters to breaching tools. Nobody ever has a problem with them, until they have a problem. Casual users will generally be happier with them. Generally the gun being locked in the holster from debris, or the holster being broken off the mount. If you're really lucky you'll pop yourself upon clearing the holster.

People also think that if you train right on the derpa you won't ride the trigger on the draw. So I set out to take some random video on several of these folks during training. They thought I was taking pictures.... but it was high speed video. On closer inspection most were riding the trigger at speed, it just happens so fast you think you aren't doing it. Until you make a bang when the sights aren't in front of you.... In this case a heavy Trigger like the Glock NY variants or Beretta/Sig DA are insurance that allow a little more error.

Kyle Defoor summed it up best when he said that the folks who issue these are inexperienced shooters.

The design offers zero advantages, with many downsides and a long history of failboating. There is no reason to defend it or consider it an option.

Stuff like Fobus ain't my idea of a great holster either, but at least they're serviceable and I'd take one over a derpa any day.

 

[London]

So where does your trigger finger go with the ALS?

 

[inceptor]

The ALS has a thumb release.

 

[M. Sage]

Safariland ALS is everything the Derpa wishes it was.

Serpa is crap. Period. Just like everything Blackhawk makes, from grenade pouches to holsters to breaching tools. Nobody ever has a problem with them, until they have a problem. Casual users will generally be happier with them. Generally the gun being locked in the holster from debris, or the holster being broken off the mount. If you're really lucky you'll pop yourself upon clearing the holster.

People also think that if you train right on the derpa you won't ride the trigger on the draw. So I set out to take some random video on several of these folks during training. They thought I was taking pictures.... but it was high speed video. On closer inspection most were riding the trigger at speed, it just happens so fast you think you aren't doing it. Until you make a bang when the sights aren't in front of you.... In this case a heavy Trigger like the Glock NY variants or Beretta/Sig DA are insurance that allow a little more error.

Kyle Defoor summed it up best when he said that the folks who issue these are inexperienced shooters.

The design offers zero advantages, with many downsides and a long history of failboating. There is no reason to defend it or consider it an option.

Stuff like Fobus ain't my idea of a great holster either, but at least they're serviceable and I'd take one over a derpa any day.

You're welcome to film me to confirm, but I definitely do not ride the trigger on my draw.

USMC adopted SERPA a couple years ago, if memory serves. I've yet to hear of a PD using these holsters having a higher rate of self-inflicted wounds, and I haven't heard that of the USMC since they went to it. If there were two environments where I guarantee you'd see that happen, it's police and military. But especially police... talk about casual users.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Safariland ALS is everything the Derpa wishes it was.

Serpa is crap. Period. Just like everything Blackhawk makes, from grenade pouches to holsters to breaching tools. Nobody ever has a problem with them, until they have a problem. Casual users will generally be happier with them. Generally the gun being locked in the holster from debris, or the holster being broken off the mount. If you're really lucky you'll pop yourself upon clearing the holster.

People also think that if you train right on the derpa you won't ride the trigger on the draw. So I set out to take some random video on several of these folks during training. They thought I was taking pictures.... but it was high speed video. On closer inspection most were riding the trigger at speed, it just happens so fast you think you aren't doing it. Until you make a bang when the sights aren't in front of you.... In this case a heavy Trigger like the Glock NY variants or Beretta/Sig DA are insurance that allow a little more error.

Kyle Defoor summed it up best when he said that the folks who issue these are inexperienced shooters.

The design offers zero advantages, with many downsides and a long history of failboating. There is no reason to defend it or consider it an option.

Stuff like Fobus ain't my idea of a great holster either, but at least they're serviceable and I'd take one over a derpa any day.

^This.

@Mike, I hate to say it but, eventually you're gonna find out you're wrong on the Serpa and that it really isn't that great of a holster.

 

[ElevenBravo]

i'm not terribly impressed with them. when i first saw the design, i thought it could lead to trouble. the school out here doesn't allow them due to an incident with a student ND'ing their weapon using a Serpa. i will admit that every time an ND happens involving the Serpa, it's the operator's fault, but your equipment should not be encouraging bad behavior. case in point: i'm involved with big brothers/big sisters and i'm matched with a 12 year old kid whom i am teaching how to shoot and be safe around firearms. we were at a local gun store that had a Serpa display with some blue guns. i was watching him drag and a few times i saw his index finger slip right into the trigger guard as he drew. he asked me about the Serpas and why i didn't like them as much as my Comp-Tac or Bladetech. i had him reholster the gun and had him draw a couple times at combat speed, leaving his finger wherever it lands. almost every time, his finger slipped into the trigger guard as soon as it cleared the holster, and i had him take note of how much pressure he was putting on the trigger. he admitted that he was squeezing the trigger pretty hard, possibly enough to cause a negligent discharge.

now i think the locking and positive retention feature is a good idea, i just disagree with the idea that the trigger finger needs to be doing any other business other than getting ready to do trigger work.

 

[M. Sage]

^This.

@Mike, I hate to say it but, eventually you're gonna find out you're wrong on the Serpa and that it really isn't that great of a holster.

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying it's not the dangerous "shoot yourself machine!!" that people think it is. I run it because I already have it and I'm too cheap to go upgrade yet.

 

[London]

The ALS has a thumb release.

I know that. But that doesn't answer my question.

I'll cut to the chase- you're trigger finger goes in pretty much the same place on the ALS as it does on the SERPA, or any other holster, really. That finger is going to be close to the trigger no matter what. Keep your finger straight and you'll be fine.

I understand the arguments about the button getting jammed up. That's not a very strong argument IMO. You can jam a revolver's timing or an auto's rails with all sorts of things, too. Should we stop carrying those? And if so, what do we carry? Derringers? Is the ALS immune from getting jammed up?

You gotta do your own risk analysis on these things. I like my Israeli holster very much. Yes, it could be better. So can everything else in this world. You can't have it all.

Really the debris thing would be a non-issue if you simply covered the button and the gaps around it with cloth, leather, etc. which leaves us with the final issue: it's plastic and breaks. I can't help you there. If it's plastic it's just not going to take the same kind of impact abuse as leather. The abrasion resistance will be much better so pick your poison.

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

I know that. But that doesn't answer my question.

I'll cut to the chase- you're trigger finger goes in pretty much the same place on the ALS as it does on the SERPA, or any other holster, really. That finger is going to be close to the trigger no matter what. Keep your finger straight and you'll be fine.

I understand the arguments about the button getting jammed up. That's not a very strong argument IMO. You can jam a revolver's timing or an auto's rails with all sorts of things, too. Should we stop carrying those? And if so, what do we carry? Derringers? Is the ALS immune from getting jammed up?

You gotta do your own risk analysis on these things. I like my Israeli holster very much. Yes, it could be better. So can everything else in this world. You can't have it all.

Really the debris thing would be a non-issue if you simply covered the button and the gaps around it with cloth, leather, etc. which leaves us with the final issue: it's plastic and breaks. I can't help you there. If it's plastic it's just not going to take the same kind of impact abuse as leather. The abrasion resistance will be much better so pick your poison.

Yeah, but on the SERPA your trigger finger has to apply inward pressure on the button to release the gun whereas the ALS does not require that. You're less likely to press too hard, curl up that trigger finger on the draw, and then subsequently have a ND.

 

[London]

Yeah, but on the SERPA your trigger finger has to apply inward pressure on the button to release the gun whereas the ALS does not require that. You're less likely to press too hard, curl up that trigger finger on the draw, and then subsequently have a ND.

If you are curling your finger you are doing it wrong period. Learning to keep your finger straight is as easy as it gets. If someone shoots themselves because they can't master keeping their finger straight I have no pity. Your finger is going to index the pistol in that area anyway (if you are using proper form). Here is a picture of what happens if your finger slips toward the trigger when it is kept straight:



Hardly a cause for concern.

I don't train very many people but if I did and the student just couldn't stop curling their fingers I'd have to tell them "Maybe shooting isn't for you." They clearly aren't taking it seriously; why should I risk my reputation training the person who might do something stupid with a firearm because they are ineducable?

Ultimately my point is that the SERPAs aren't nearly as dangerous as people make them out to be IF you do your part. Where we all seem to be splitting hairs is that big "If."

 

[txinvestigator]

Ignore the professional opinions and do whatever you want.

Odd thread.

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

Ignore the professional opinions and do whatever you want.

Odd thread.

LOL, glad someone else realized that. Oh well.

 

[hkusp1]

Not an odd thread. It's just like every other Serpa thread that has ever been started.


Sent from my toaster using secret alien technology.

 

[tussery]

Let's put the safety issue aside. I do not like a holster that could lock your gun in the holster by getting a pebble in it. If you carry in a SERPA don't do ground work.

 

[40Arpent]

Here is a picture of what happens if your finger slips toward the trigger when it is kept straight:

View attachment 19842

"

Now move your hand up a half inch to where it belongs on the grip and retake the pic....

 

[London]

Now move your hand up a half inch to where it belongs on the grip and retake the pic....

That pic was taken intentionally to show what happens if your finger slips. Did you read the post?

 

[40Arpent]

That pic was taken intentionally to show what happens if your finger slips. Did you read the post?

Yes, I read it. And another example of why the pic doesn't illustrate your point worth a damn is that not everyone has the same length fingers. Lol

 

[txinvestigator]

I can stage a picture to show anything I want.

The professionals have spoke. Those who invested in the holster and feel some part of the ego is attached to the investment have spoken.

Others can read the material and make their own conclusions.

Y'all have a good un.

 

[London]

Yes, I read it. And another example of why the pic doesn't illustrate your point worth a damn is that not everyone has the same length fingers. Lol

Yeah, lots of 12 year olds walking around with SERPAS. I guess you got me there.

 

[Younggun]

I think a lot of people will have there finger inside the trigger guard before they should on a draw stroke no matter which holster they use.

That said, I've never used or even handled a serpa. Most of my guns require me to bend my finger to get it in the trigger guard so as long as I kept it straight it wouldn't be a problem.

My PPQ is a different story, it's more open( which I like) so it would be possible but it would still require bending my finger to pull the trigger.

Now I wanna get a serpa just so I can form an opinion, y'all suck.