Blackhawk SERPA Holsters, simply not worth the risk!

[M. Sage]

Well. There's always this guy.

FWIW, that guy pulled about a dozen videos off his YT channel showing him handling guns in horribly stupid and unsafe ways. Shooting himself was just the sign he was born under...

 

[JColumbus]

No, because I don't have to use my trigger finger to apply inward pressure to release my gun.

Well then maybe I'VE had a bad habit this whole time, but my mil buddies do it the same way. As I am pulling my pistol out of the holster, my finger is already in place where it will rest on the frame, right below the slide. I have never seen anybody do it differently.

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

Well then maybe I'VE had a bad habit this whole time, but my mil buddies do it the same way. As I am pulling my pistol out of the holster, my finger is already in place where it will rest on the frame, right below the slide. I have never seen anybody do it differently.

Mine rests there too, but like I said, I don't have to use that same finger to press inward to release the gun.

I'm beginning to regret posting here again. If you want to use a SERPA, use a SERPA. I don't want to, so I won't.

 

[JColumbus]

Mine rests there too, but like I said, I don't have to use that same finger to press inward to release the gun.

I'm beginning to regret posting here again. If you want to use a SERPA, use a SERPA. I don't want to, so I won't.

Hahaha, sucked you back in. I get what you're saying now, but I guess it doesn't matter. I just can't wait to get a good kydex holster. Never used one. Hear they're the best.

 

[Combative W]

One last response and then I am through on this post.
JColumbus - If you use a holster that does not require inward pressure of the index finder, then you reduce the chances of the trigger finger engaging the trigger when under stress. Any other holster that allow one to keep the finger straight and does not require one to exert pressure with the trigger finger, will prevent the finger from contracting due to the biomechanics of having the finger fully extended. I have studied and researched this extensively along with hands on testing. I put more time into research and testing things than most people do in an entire year at a shooting range. But then again, what do I know..... I will not even get into the; "Well so and so does it so it must be right" thinking.
Stay safe.

 

[JColumbus]

One last response and then I am through on this post.
JColumbus - If you use a holster that does not require inward pressure of the index finder, then you reduce the chances of the trigger finger engaging the trigger when under stress. Any other holster that allow one to keep the finger straight and does not require one to exert pressure with the trigger finger, will prevent the finger from contracting due to the biomechanics of having the finger fully extended. I have studied and researched this extensively along with hands on testing. I put more time into research and testing things than most people do in an entire year at a shooting range. But then again, what do I know..... I will not even get into the; "Well so and so does it so it must be right" thinking.
Stay safe.

I don't debate under the basis of what others do or say about something. I leave that to someone els on this forum. :whistling: Not that you're gonna read this, seeing as though you're done with this thread, but I've already acknowledged I am not nearly experienced as a lot of you on here. Till I do get there, I do understand your point, I just don't see how it can go as far as to someone shooting themselves. Like the rest of you, I'll just shut up about it now.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

People seem to be missing the point when it comes to "don't curl your finger" when you draw the holster. When you have a body alarm response (which means shit has gotten real and it was unexpected), the bodies NORMAL and UNCONTROLLABLE response to the threat will be the potential and probable contraction of fingers if you are trying to draw a weapon or if you have a weapon in your hand. Your hands will be grabbing that gun, if you get to it in time, with a death grip in reality. This is backed up by scientific and other various studies done in correlation to "fight" or "flight" responses to stress. Having taught and experienced true high stress firearms scenario training, I have witnessed this as well as other normal bodily reactions that validify this fact. This is probably one of the biggest issues in training that I see with 90% of the general industry. From a defensive shooting perspective, you have to incorporate the bodies natural responses to stress into your training. And use of gear for that matter.

I mean no offense by this, but I'm guessing (from seeing your bio) that you're basically referring to some of what Rob Pincus teaches. Nothing against you but, personally, I don't listen to a word that guy says. He's done his homework and has the book smarts, for the most part, but is way off on a few subjects and completely wrong on others. The fact that he references all of his training to be about "gunfighting", and that he considers himself to basically be an "expert" on the subject.....all without ever actually having been in combat or an actual gunfight.....is what we in the industry refer to as a clue, and is a big reason to avoid that guy.

I don't mean that to imply that someone that has never been in a gunfight is incapable of teaching people how to run a gun well, as I don't find that to be the case. But when we get on the subject of "gunfighting" and "what happens in a gunfight", it's pretty hypocritical of him to be teaching about something he has no experience with, just because he's read some books, taken a few classes himself, etc. I've never been in one, and it's why I don't offer "gunfighting" classes. I'll make no bones about the fact that I don't like Rob Pincus, and personally I think he's full of it. There are a lot of other well-regarded people in the industry I know of that feel the same way. Hell, there are a lot of very highly regarded people I know, instructors too, that have plenty of "gunfighting" experience, several of which have military special operations and special mission unit experience (there are several on this forum formerly with tier 1 SMU's), that don't seem to put any stock In "flinch responses" or "body alarm responses", or "critical incidents", or any of that other nonsense. Anyways, sorry to get OT, I just really dislike that guy as he's basically the master used car salesman of the gun training industry.

Well maybe that might derail the Serpa thread. LOL Some of you will be happy.

 

[stalker19]

I know that. But that doesn't answer my question.


Really the debris thing would be a non-issue if you simply covered the button and the gaps around it with cloth, leather, etc. which leaves us with the final issue: it's plastic and breaks. I can't help you there. If it's plastic it's just not going to take the same kind of impact abuse as leather. The abrasion resistance will be much better so pick your poison.

Along the slide. Good luck covering the button from the inside as well.

Someone mentioned the USMC adoption of the Serpa. Again- decisions made by inexperienced shooters. Elected officials concerned with budgeting and manufacturing capability.

I will again say that nobody has a problem, until they do.

I remember when they came out and I thought they were OK.

First training event, guns started locking up in holsters and holster/guns were shearing off mounting plates from getting snagged on door frames, vehicles, etc. When we returned them to the place of purchase, that distributor literally had a counter full of broken holsters. Turned out other units had also discovered cutting edge Serpa technology. The weakness in design goes across the board for every injection molded pouch type kit that BH makes. Other problems were later discovered in force on force: Anyone who is in decent physical condition can strip one off a belt with their bare hands.

This is stuff you notice when you use stuff for a living, instead of deciding to outfit an organization because it seemed nice when you shot a couple mags at the range on a sunny day or because Todd Jarrett looks awesome with his Serpa.

I will add that Pincus is indeed a hack. And the whole hand curl thing is subjective. Many folks hands will open when startled. In the case of the holster, the bottom line is that you're applying pressure inboard during the drawstroke. I'm not much of a gamblin' man, myself.

 

[Younggun]

Along the slide. Good luck covering the button from the inside as well.

Someone mentioned the USMC adoption of the Serpa. Again- decisions made by inexperienced shooters. Elected officials concerned with budgeting and manufacturing capability.

Yup, look at that old outdated pistol they started buying again.....

 

[M. Sage]

Yup, look at that old outdated pistol they started buying again.....

They never really stopped. They just bought a bunch more.

And he has a point... At least one of those batches of 1911s were Kimbers.

 

[JColumbus]

Along the slide. Good luck covering the button from the inside as well.

Someone mentioned the USMC adoption of the Serpa. Again- decisions made by inexperienced shooters. Elected officials concerned with budgeting and manufacturing capability.

I will again say that nobody has a problem, until they do.

I remember when they came out and I thought they were OK.

First training event, guns started locking up in holsters and holster/guns were shearing off mounting plates from getting snagged on door frames, vehicles, etc. When we returned them to the place of purchase, that distributor literally had a counter full of broken holsters. Turned out other units had also discovered cutting edge Serpa technology. The weakness in design goes across the board for every injection molded pouch type kit that BH makes. Other problems were later discovered in force on force: Anyone who is in decent physical condition can strip one off a belt with their bare hands.

This is stuff you notice when you use stuff for a living, instead of deciding to outfit an organization because it seemed nice when you shot a couple mags at the range on a sunny day or because Todd Jarrett looks awesome with his Serpa.

I will add that Pincus is indeed a hack. And the whole hand curl thing is subjective. Many folks hands will open when startled. In the case of the holster, the bottom line is that you're applying pressure inboard during the drawstroke. I'm not much of a gamblin' man, myself.

Ah, now this is a well stated objection to my misunderstanding of why this holster is said to be so bad. So, is a kydex holster the best kind to get? If not, what is?

 

[Combative W]

I will give cudos to all SF as I have the utmost respect and many are friends, but unless you are SF and have the thousands and thousands of repetitions doing true gunfighting, then I will disagree on the flinch response. Considering most people do not even come close to putting in the time and effort to train properly AND understand the human body and how it reacts to stress.... It is pretty close minded to not even give serious consideration to what Pincus has written. I to do not believe in everything that is taught, that is why I have developed my own methods. But you said yourself that he is a pretty smart guy, so why not with an open mind at least take the information that is credible and can be used where needed and apply it. I think it is funny that so many say, "I will only train with so and so and that is it." There is so much knowledge and information out there that one person does not hold the holy grail of shooting. I train and work with a multitude of different people and industry instructors from varying backgrounds such as civies, LE, military, SF, and etc. On top of having thoroughly studied the dynamics of stress and the bodies reaction in which I DO have over 20+ years of hands on experience, I do think I am pretty qualified at bringing qualified facts to the table in that arena. I am not going to get into a pissing match as it is simply a matter of opinion and everyone has different ones. I am simply trying to educate and pass knowledge, take and apply where needed.

 

[WTK]

Looks like most of us know that Trigger Discipline is everything when handling firearms.

 

[BIGPAPIGREG]

Necro post alive and well........

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Necro post alive and well........

yep

 

[jrbfishn]

I think I've still got one of the oldest. At about 4 years.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

I've got you beat at 5 yrs.

 

[jrbfishn]

Show off!!!