Body Armor?

[breakingcontact]

My thoughts confirmed.

 

[breakingcontact]

So Green Eye...as a civilian now you prefer steel? How about that XM193 threat?

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Right I've read about that. I have been considering it from a civilian vs mil perspective.

Military stuff often may be "better" but it is often supported heavily by a supply/support chain. Also it is often deployed as a system or in a different context.

Ill try and go back and read the article today.

Ive read most steel armor doesn't stop XM193 556

M193 is nasty. It is a solid round at very high velocity. At close range, they will punch through or severely damage steel. Out past 100yds, you're fine. Ceramic will stop them at close range, but the plates will be severely compromised after that.

If you're really concerned about high velocity penetrating rounds, then you need to be looking at level 4 armor. Most steel is only rated at level 3 (which stops most rifle rounds). For level 4- steel manufacturers add a composite layer.

With M193, its the velocity you really have to pay attention to. This is especially important if you are using steel targets. A good rule of thumb is to back your distance off to where your round slows down to 2400-2600fps (if you're using high quality steel from a reputable manufacturer).

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

So Green Eye...as a civilian now you prefer steel? How about that XM193 threat?

If I had the cash to burn, I would run level 4 stand alone ceramics in my vest and toss them if I had doubts of their integrity or every couple years. But that kind of cash could also buy a new rifle every year as well.

I run steel now.

 

[breakingcontact]

If I had the cash to burn, I would run level 4 stand alone ceramics in my vest and toss them if I had doubts of their integrity or every couple years. But that kind of cash could also buy a new rifle every year as well.

I run steel now.

It is just kind of a trip that the AR is wildly popular now especially in LE and that XM193 round is such a penetrator even more than green tip.

Stupid AR!

Need to look at ballistics of 16" vs 20" barrel. So the thing that makes it not a good round...makes it a good round for defeating armor.

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

It is just kind of a trip that the AR is wildly popular now especially in LE and that XM193 round is such a penetrator even more than green tip.

Stupid AR!

Need to look at ballistics of 16" vs 20" barrel. So the thing that makes it not a good round...makes it a good round for defeating armor.

Remember, just because it penetrates doesn't mean it is good. It penetrates because it is a solid round at high velocity. The green tip has more than adequate penetration and terminal performance when fire out of the appropriate barrel length. For SBR's we developed the Brown tip round when we fielded the short barrel HK 416's, which was basically a bonded round that has been common with hunters for quite some time (albeit, loaded with much quicker burning propellant). Ideally, you are looking for predictable expansion to provide enough penetration while not over penetrating.

 

[breakingcontact]

Remember, just because it penetrates doesn't mean it is good. It penetrates because it is a solid round at high velocity. The green tip has more than adequate penetration and terminal performance when fire out of the appropriate barrel length. For SBR's we developed the Brown tip round when we fielded the short barrel HK 416's, which was basically a bonded round that has been common with hunters for quite some time (albeit, loaded with much quicker burning propellant). Ideally, you are looking for predictable expansion to provide enough penetration while not over penetrating.

Right. Small high speed round that often punches through soft targets without dumping its energy is ideal for defeating plates.

 

[breakingcontact]

556 out of 20" is around 3200 fps I believe. Out of 16" is 2800?

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

556 out of 20" is around 3200 fps I believe. Out of 16" is 2800?

Your actual muzzle velocity will vary depending on the rifle, ammo and atmospherics. You can get a chronograph at basspro pretty cheap. That an a ballistic calculator app on your phone will take the guesswork out of it and help you get a much more accurate zero

 

[breakingcontact]

Your actual muzzle velocity will vary depending on the rifle, ammo and atmospherics. You can get a chronograph at basspro pretty cheap. That an a ballistic calculator app on your phone will take the guesswork out of it and help you get a much more accurate zero

Yeah...I know that.

Just trying to figure out what rounds out of what rifles level 3 steel will generally protect me from.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

And your dog is camo'd for the couch as well, lol....

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Did we figure out steel vs ceramic?

Steel.

 

[breakingcontact]

Steel.

View attachment 31860

Forgot. It was already settled.

I think I might get both.

 

[TheDan]

Did we figure out steel vs ceramic?

Yep... Spectra/Dyneema. It floats! It is bulky, tho. Steel is obviously the most affordable.

I wore my plates through a full deployment, as well as many others.


I don't recall any X-Rays ever being performed.

You were probably getting the ones that failed GreenEye's tests

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

To add to this, I always run side plates as well- unless I'm doing something that requires me to be slicker or lighter

 

[NeckBeard]

To add to this, I always run side plates as well- unless I'm doing something that requires me to be slicker or lighter

How much weight do side plates add? I'll be at your class next weekend.... Would like to check em out if u have em.

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

How much weight do side plates add? I'll be at your class next weekend.... Would like to check em out if u have em.

I'll have them there. It does add weight, just one of those things you have to suck up. Could be worse, you could be humping full kit + a basic load and everything else some officer thought would be a good idea up 8,000ft in Afghanistan.

I've been sold on side plates ever since my first tour in Iraq with the Unit. When we got back, my team and I were taking apart our vests and reconfiguring for hostage rescue. One of my buddies pulled out his side plate and then there was a "thunk" on the table. And a deformed 7.62 round staring at us. Came to realize it was from a mission where he and I were on a little bird chasing down an armed squirter. Just as we got on this guy he spun around and opened up with his AK. We dropped him, but my buddy thought he felt the bird get hit. Little did he know the impact was from the round. At that upward angle of penetration through his side, had the plate not been there, there would have been no saving him.

 

[NeckBeard]

I'll have them there. It does add weight, just one of those things you have to suck up. Could be worse, you could be humping full kit + a basic load and everything else some officer thought would be a good idea up 8,000ft in Afghanistan.

I've been sold on side plates ever since my first tour in Iraq with the Unit. When we got back, my team and I were taking apart our vests and reconfiguring for hostage rescue. One of my buddies pulled out his side plate and then there was a "thunk" on the table. And a deformed 7.62 round staring at us. Came to realize it was from a mission where he and I were on a little bird chasing down an armed squirter. Just as we got on this guy he spun around and opened up with his AK. We dropped him, but my buddy thought he felt the bird get hit. Little did he know the impact was from the round. At that upward angle of penetration through his side, had the plate not been there, there would have been no saving him.

Crazy... I've seen what rounds can do to vehicles if the ricochet off steal/rock, especially 7n6. That's why I wear armor when I am at the range and/or shooting with other people...

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Crazy... I've seen what rounds can do to vehicles if the ricochet off steal/rock, especially 7n6. That's why I wear armor when I am at the range and/or shooting with other people...

It just takes getting used to the weight of armor and a helmet. And you just have to wear it to get used to it. Same reason your HS football coach made you wear your helmet for practice even if it was a no-contact practice

 

[NeckBeard]

It just takes getting used to the weight of armor and a helmet. And you just have to wear it to get used to it. Same reason your HS football coach made you wear your helmet for practice even if it was a no-contact practice

Yep.

my PC feels heavy when you hold it but after 10 minutes wearing it.... It's nothing. And I have silicon carbide plates....