Body Armor?

[breakingcontact]

I just wrote an article on this very subject here. It shouldn't take you that long to throw on your vest, a few seconds is more like it. There's no reason that your armor can't be readily accessible, unless you mount a sidearm on it for some weird reason and you have kids. You can build a simple hanger that breaks down for transport with a 2x4 and some screws.

Eric, I finally got around to checking out your website.

I understand most of the benefits between steel and ceramic.

What I cannot seem to peg down is if AR500 type steel stops XM193. I see tests online where it does stop it and tests where it doesn't.

Where is the variation here? Between the distance people are shooting it at or the quality of the steel?

Thanks!

Since my plates would live 99% of their lives in my closet, I'm really leaning towards ceramic with a backup set of steel.

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Eric, I finally got around to checking out your website.

I understand most of the benefits between steel and ceramic.

What I cannot seem to peg down is if AR500 type steel stops XM193. I see tests online where it does stop it and tests where it doesn't.

Where is the variation here? Between the distance people are shooting it at or the quality of the steel?

Thanks!

Since my plates would live 99% of their lives in my closet, I'm really leaning towards ceramic with a backup set of steel.

The quick answer is both.

Quality of the steel and thickness can affect penetration. For xm193 it is a matter of velocity. At close range, it can penetrate. A lot of us shoot steel targets all the time. I shoot xm193 on my ar500 steel targets regularly. The reason we don't see holes in the steel is because the distance we would have to be to penetrate would close enough that be unsafe.

The best answer I can give you, since you're concerned about xm193 is to go with level 4 ceramic or level 4 steel composite.

Level 3 will stop rifle rounds that people would generally select for soft tissue performance, but is not going to be 100% for 193, nor will it stop AP.

 

[breakingcontact]

The quick answer is both.

Quality of the steel and thickness can affect penetration. For xm193 it is a matter of velocity. At close range, it can penetrate. A lot of us shoot steel targets all the time. I shoot xm193 on my ar500 steel targets regularly. The reason we don't see holes in the steel is because the distance we would have to be to penetrate would close enough that be unsafe.

The best answer I can give you, since you're concerned about xm193 is to go with level 4 ceramic or level 4 steel composite.

Level 3 will stop rifle rounds that people would generally select for soft tissue performance, but is not going to be 100% for 193, nor will it stop AP.

Thanks for the reply. Right, that makes sense, when I've seen guys in person shoot steel with an AR, it was always at some distance, not extremely close.

With the wild popularity of the AR, XM193 is a real threat that I want to mitigate against.

Looks like it is ceramic for me but as the steel is much cheaper, will probably grab a set of them too.

You've also got me thinking about side plates, which I wasn't previously.

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Thanks for the reply. Right, that makes sense, when I've seen guys in person shoot steel with an AR, it was always at some distance, not extremely close.

With the wild popularity of the AR, XM193 is a real threat that I want to mitigate against.

Looks like it is ceramic for me but as the steel is much cheaper, will probably grab a set of them too.

You've also got me thinking about side plates, which I wasn't previously.

No worries. If you have the means to go with level 4 and maintain it properly, that's good. But keep in mind that while xm193 is cheap and in good supply, it isn't the ideal round to plan on using for defense or prepping for zombie mobs on your lawn any more than ball ammo is for pistols. Don't get me wrong, shot placement is king. But you want consistent expansion or yaw to ensure good penetration without excessive overpenetration.

 

[Younggun]

I would look at it as the most likely ammo a thug would have loaded. Same reason gangs aren't spraying houses with Critical Defense or Golden Sabers.


It just happens that what is most likely to penetrate at close range is also what's most widely available and often cheapest.

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

I would look at it as the most likely ammo a thug would have loaded. Same reason gangs aren't spraying houses with Critical Defense or Golden Sabers.


It just happens that what is most likely to penetrate at close range is also what's most widely available and often cheapest.

Excellent point. But I would also say that if the extra money for ceramics comes between you owning a good quality rifle, good quality optics and NVD's- I would sacrifice a bit of protection to gain engagement superiority and then rectify the protection issue afterwards.

 

[breakingcontact]

No worries. If you have the means to go with level 4 and maintain it properly, that's good. But keep in mind that while xm193 is cheap and in good supply, it isn't the ideal round to plan on using for defense or prepping for zombie mobs on your lawn any more than ball ammo is for pistols. Don't get me wrong, shot placement is king. But you want consistent expansion or yaw to ensure good penetration without excessive overpenetration.

From my plans for defense, 556 isn't in there at all. Learning that XM193 is such a great penetrator at close range is very interesting to me and something I need to mitigate against for both SHTF and training.

Just a trip to me that Level III will defeat M80 ball but not XM193. I understand the physics/math behind it, still it is pretty wild.

Get shot in the face, armpit or femur I suppose it won't matter if I went with steel/ceramic.

Plans to bug in: reaffirmed

Conversation I had with a friend about slick, concealable armor: piqued

 

[Ready.Fire.Aim]

Great topic. Which plate carrier manufacturer and Vendor do you recommend?

Eagle?

Thanks
RFA

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Great topic. Which plate carrier manufacturer and Vendor do you recommend?

Eagle?

Thanks
RFA

You could probably fill a book with all the different plate carriers out there. I run a Crye JPC.

 

[breakingcontact]

Argh!

Steel plates will take more hits than ceramic!

As far as plate carriers go, I like the Shellback Tactical/Tactical Assault Gear Banshee but I haven't loaded it up with plates yet so...my input isn't worth too much.

It is a popular one and US made.

Mayflower APC is another popular one I almost bought.

Does that Crye JPC have built in mag holders in the kangaroo pouch?

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Argh!

Steel plates will take more hits than ceramic!

As far as plate carriers go, I like the Shellback Tactical/Tactical Assault Gear Banshee but I haven't loaded it up with plates yet so...my input isn't worth too much.

It is a popular one and US made.

Mayflower APC is another popular one I almost bought.

Does that Crye JPC have built in mag holders in the kangaroo pouch?

The JPC is the same vest I used in the Unit. It does have built in front mag pouches. It isn't the most expensive one out there. But there's lots of great vests, wear what suits you best.

 

[breakingcontact]

Agreed, lots of good options out there including a fair amount of US made stuff.

---->off to research multiple hits on steel vs ceramic.

 

[txinvestigator]

The JPC is the same vest I used in the Unit.

Snake Doctor?

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Snake Doctor?

Who?

 

[txinvestigator]

Who?

No! Dirt Diver, perhaps?

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

No! Dirt Diver, perhaps?

What are you talking about?

 

[txinvestigator]

What are you talking about?

Just lame jokes. You never saw "The Unit"? The Eric Haney inspired TV show about 1SFOD-D....

Snake Doctor and Dirt Diver were code names for two of the The Unit operators.

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Oh right. Sorry about that. I think I did see the first season when it came out. It was a bit too cheesy for my tastes.

 

[TX69]

I don't believe any of the comments about time are directly about just the time it takes to put armor on. It's about getting to the armor, getting it on, getting back to an area, all while under fire because if you weren't under fire then why would you think you need armor? If you have time then great. If you stage several sets around your house then amazing. But if you're like most people and just throw it in a closet then it's unlikely to be useful in the most likely of the the extremely rare possibilities when you might be able to use armor.

Unfortunately I do not have armor (yet) but I have heard of guys that do have multiple sets of vests they stash to slip on. I too am not sure that I would have the time or wherewithal to put one on under fire. What I have seen that makes the most sense to me in size and expense is the Palm vests for a little over $200. Of course they are the minimum of protection and are for small pistol calibers only. I can see having these stuffed in your vehicle, bedside, or just about anywhere one would think necessary.

https://uspalm.com/products/armor/armor/us-palm-defender-slick.html

 

[NeckBeard]

Unfortunately I do not have armor (yet) but I have heard of guys that do have multiple sets of vests they stash to slip on. I too am not sure that I would have the time or wherewithal to put one on under fire. What I have seen that makes the most sense to me in size and expense is the Palm vests for a little over $200. Of course they are the minimum of protection and are for small pistol calibers only. I can see having these stuffed in your vehicle, bedside, or just about anywhere one would think necessary.

https://uspalm.com/products/armor/armor/us-palm-defender-slick.html

I'm a big guy and those are too small on me, but they do work. well priced and quick to put on. Unlike a traditional plate carrier, that can be worn pretty discreetly under a coat.

I am planning on getting a us palm for my wife.