Can I trust someone else's work?

[bgw45]

Each of us that reload are willing to accept the results of an reloading error...... As careful and intentional as we are there is always the possibility of something going wrong. I can accept that.

I will not let others shoot my reloads, period.

I won't reload for anyone else, period.

I don't shoot others reloads, period.

JMHO

 

[ROGER4314]

I remember looking at boxes of fired pistol rounds that were purchased at a gun show from a commercial reloader. Each hull was placed open end down in a box so I could examine the primers. The primers were excessively flattened, rounded at the edges and everywhere in between .....all from the same box of reloads! These variable pressure signs were dead give-a-ways that their quality control in powder charges, bullet weights or case capacity (volume) sucked! The pressure varied a LOT between rounds and surely that gave variable results!

Flash

 

[Deavis]

Perhaps Flash but reading primers is not as conclusive a way of reading pressure as many think, especially in a mixed brass situation. Primers can flatten well before there is a chamber pressure issue for a couple reasons.

If variation were so bad that it showed up as clearly as you say, surely shooting them must have felt incredibly odd. Bang, poof, bang, poof? Who was the loader?

 

[ROGER4314]

I didn't shoot the rounds and only read the primer signs. I had nothing else to go on, but those primer signs suggested that the rounds were inconsistent. I'll send the name of the reloader by PM.

Flash

 

[rp-]

I have noticed when shooting reloads from a so. Cal. Company that every 2-5/rounds I would get one that really racked the slide back more than the others. I asked the range guy about it and he had said it was because I didn't hold the gun right and blew me off likely because he was too busy getting his talk out with his glock out.

...For the record that's a reference to the asshole range masters and dealers who don't give you the time of day unless you're looking at a glock or an ar-15.... (Bracken guns??!?!)

I had been shooting that gun for several years at that point and knew how my gun felt. On those rounds it felt different. I pretty much blew off his answer and chalked it up to the rounds. Finished the rest of my 250 Rd box at the next trip, never bought them again

 

[rp-]

I should note that wasn't AT bracken guns but rather describes those tools there.

 

[ROGER4314]

There are significant differences in individual rounds of ammo that we buy. That is why I put "cost" at the low end of my concerns about my reloads. I don't need my reloads to be cheaper.....only better.

I chronographed some .308 reloads that varied only 15 feet/second in velocity from high to low in the string. That consistency requires attention to very small details as the rounds are loaded. The results in accuracy are worth the extra effort!

To illustrate, lets look at some purchased rounds. Some friends and I started shooting clay pigeons placed on the 200 yard berm (actually 208 yards) at our club. We picked off the birds with .22LR rifles. Some of the .22 ammo varied in pressure/velocity to a noticeable degree. Some rounds went POP and some went POW! Differences in point of impact varied as much as 3 feet between rounds at 208 yards and some brands were better than others.

SO....regarding reloads. Forget "cheaper" and go for "better".

Flash

 

[rp-]

I've seen a show about snipers on the history channel several times where they describe the snipers reloading process where they're measuring bullet weights to the 1/10th of a grain, powder to the 1/100th of a grain, and brass weight size and length. What kind of advantage does that really give a guy?

I could understand not wanting a range of say 10% but it seems like they're looking for 0% or less variance. Is this more reserved for match shooters and/or people with way too much time on their hands??

 

[Younggun]

I don't know of a scale powder scale, or any other scale, that would work in any kind of remotely normal reloading environment that can accurately measure to 1/100 of a grain. It would have to be a room completely designed around the process.

Then there is the fact that each individual "grain"(physical) of powder will way more than 1/100 of a grain(weight).

Sounds like BS to me.

 

[Younggun]

Also, 10% is a pretty big margin on the other end of the spectrum.

 

[ROGER4314]

Marksmanship skills and techniques are MUCH more significant in accuracy than a powder variation that actually is not within the capability of a digital scale accuracy. Do good work in reloading, take care in choosing quality components, strive for consistency in brass and sort by brand, then work on your shooting skills. It will all "click" for you!

Flash

 

[rp-]

I could be wrong as I haven't seen the episode in years (no more cable) but it I recall his scale reading xx.xx. last x being hundredths. Though I suppose its possible it was reading grams instead of grains. Forgive me for my mistake. Question still stands though, is it worth the trouble and just how much benefit is there??

Say average reloading has about 1% variance in bullet weight and powder charge. By taking that 1% down to .1%, what kind of gain would you expect to see? 1/4 inch tighter groups?

Sorry for my ignorance. I've never had anyone to ask before... :-/

 

[Younggun]

I didn't mean to call BS on you, I meant the show may have been ingrained with a little BS.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Younggun]

http://nbrsa.org/sites/default/files/600yd Records_0.xls

According to these guys the record 5 shot group at 600 yards is .58" at 600 yards.

Decide by 6 and that would be just under 1/10th" at 100 yards. It would probably actually be a little smaller since there are less variables to deal with at 100 yards than at 600 yards.

 

[rp-]

Marksmanship skills and techniques are MUCH more significant in accuracy than a powder variation that actually is not within the capability of a digital scale accuracy. Do good work in reloading, take care in choosing quality components, strive for consistency in brass and sort by brand, then work on your shooting skills. It will all "click" for you!

Flash

I've only ever heard this once before from a guy I got my k31 from. I asked him how good the gp11 ammo was and he said it didn't matter becaise "the rifle will shoot straighter than the shooter". He gave me some pointers on trigger pull and had me work on it a little with him and explained breathing and grip/position.

The last thing he told me was that a good shooter can shoot 'low quality' ammo in a loose gun and still get it to o what they want it to do. I may have taken that challenge a little too seriously as I've had heated discussions with friends and range neighbors about my steel wolf ammo and their premium brands at 3-4 times the price....

 

[Younggun]

The shooter is the most important link in that a great gun won't print great groups with a crappy shooter.

At the same time, a great shooter can't shoot 1/2 MOA groups from a 3moa gun.

I've shot ammo in my rifle that prints 1.5 moa, and I've shot ammo that prints .5 moa. No amount of skill will make that 1.5 MOA ammo shoot .5moa in my rifle.


The reason so much emphasis is put on the rifle is because many want to shrink their groups by spending money on equipment when equipment is usually not the weakest link.

 

[Dawico]

I could be wrong as I haven't seen the episode in years (no more cable) but it I recall his scale reading xx.xx. last x being hundredths. Though I suppose its possible it was reading grams instead of grains. Forgive me for my mistake. Question still stands though, is it worth the trouble and just how much benefit is there??

Say average reloading has about 1% variance in bullet weight and powder charge. By taking that 1% down to .1%, what kind of gain would you expect to see? 1/4 inch tighter groups?

Sorry for my ignorance. I've never had anyone to ask before... :-/

Most shooters probably wouldn't see any difference at all.

Taking benchrest quality ammo and running it through a factory gun is a waste of money.

Every part of the equation has to be top notch to shoot tighter groups than what most precision reloaders are capable of as far as the ammo goes.

Don't get me wrong, I weigh cases, bullets, and powder. I also own nice guns and have a decent shooting technique. I probably wouldn't notice much difference if I turned necks and used custom made bullets.

 

[rp-]

The reason so much emphasis is put on the rifle is because many want to shrink their groups by spending money on equipment when equipment is usually not the weakest link.

Haha, I have been joking about this with a local range master when we see people with an ar plus $xxxx in accessories on it, but then they're shooting at the 50yard line and making patterns that look like a map of the stars! The 30 Rd average is about a car door at 50yards!

"Even if I don't hit them they'll sure know I'm shooting at them :-D"

Thank you guys again for all of the responses. I'll try not to take up anymore of your time.

 

[Younggun]

Please continue, the sanity of this thread is refreshing.

 

[rp-]

Hard to tell if if hats sarcasm or not. Either way, I apologize for my ignorance... The note I learn about reloading the more I. Shied off of it. Not for want but more so because I'll end up spending way too much time making sure I get things right and don't blow myself up!

Anyone load 40s&w? I have been hearing that its not a great round to reload as pressure can become a big problem. I'm more interested in reloading to keep cost down for my pistols and rifle/s