Count the safety violations

[London]

Seems like there are safer ways to conduct this type of training, don't they make same pretty realistic paintball guns,

I used to practice disarms with cheap airsoft guns and a trigger-happy partner. Good way to know what works and what doesn't.

 

[Mikewood]

So the benefit of having a stranger stand next to a cardboard target as you shoot is what exactly?

These are exorcizes that prepare you for combat. Your groups will never be tighter your front sight crisper and your trigger press more even. Someone's life is on the line just like in combat. The difference is you don't have to worry that the psychopath your trying to stop will kill your partner.

 

[cleric]

These are exorcizes that prepare you for combat. Your groups will never be tighter your front sight crisper and your trigger press more even. Someone's life is on the line just like in combat. The difference is you don't have to worry that the psychopath your trying to stop will kill your partner.

I can understand the value in putting targets out and shooting around them. But if you were to be down range and something bad happened...would your response be the same. You get shot and brush it off with well at least you learned something. You got good training for a situation that most likely will never occur. There are ways to generate that type of atmosphere without putting someone life at risk

 

[Bithabus]

These are exorcizes that prepare you for combat. Your groups will never be tighter your front sight crisper and your trigger press more even. Someone's life is on the line just like in combat. The difference is you don't have to worry that the psychopath your trying to stop will kill your partner.

No way I would stand there and let some guy shoot at a target a foot next to me. The military does this?

 

[cleric]

 

[Jakashh]

No way I would stand there and let some guy shoot at a target a foot next to me. The military does this?

The only thing I can remotely think of that is similar is when they are training snipers and they shoot at rising targets at long distances. The targets rise from a giant slot in the ground and there are people at the bottom raising them and reporting whether or not the shot was a hit or not, and where. However, they are down in a ditch with the air above them open.

At least that's what it showed in Surviving the cut: Sniper School.

 

[M. Sage]

These are exorcizes that prepare you for combat. Your groups will never be tighter your front sight crisper and your trigger press more even. Someone's life is on the line just like in combat. The difference is you don't have to worry that the psychopath your trying to stop will kill your partner.

There isn't any value in the idiotic and unsafe crap they show in this video. There are instances where it's OK to put someone downrange (you're working as part of the same team, will be in the shit and everybody involved is world-class), but there's zero training value to these exercises. There are much better ways to train for this.

There is zero real-world utility to at least half the stuff on that video.

No way I would stand there and let some guy shoot at a target a foot next to me. The military does this?

Yeah, very elite units will do it. This isn't stuff that an 11B is going to get to try... I've seen video of SEALs running a shoot house where an instructor is sitting in a chair in one of the rooms as a "real" no-shoot. But then, those guys are part of a team that will really have to trust each other with their lives, and they're shooting about a case of ammo a day during training.

I've also heard of Army SF teams having their guys carry a watermelon on a stretcher and one of their snipers hit it from 600 yards out. But again, part of a team, going to have to trust each other when they're in the shit and people who've proven that they're some of the best in the world.

It's generally done as a trust exercise. But it's only done by the people who are at the absolute top of their game and whose missions will be the ones where a fuckup gets everybody killed.

 

[M. Sage]

The only thing I can remotely think of that is similar is when they are training snipers and they shoot at rising targets at long distances. The targets rise from a giant slot in the ground and there are people at the bottom raising them and reporting whether or not the shot was a hit or not, and where. However, they are down in a ditch with the air above them open.

At least that's what it showed in Surviving the cut: Sniper School.

Eh, working a pit is nothing. Shoot NRA High Power competitions and you'll do that.

 

[Bithabus]

Yeah, very elite units will do it. This isn't stuff that an 11B is going to get to try... I've seen video of SEALs running a shoot house where an instructor is sitting in a chair in one of the rooms as a "real" no-shoot. But then, those guys are part of a team that will really have to trust each other with their lives, and they're shooting about a case of ammo a day during training.

I've also heard of Army SF teams having their guys carry a watermelon on a stretcher and one of their snipers hit it from 600 yards out. But again, part of a team, going to have to trust each other when they're in the shit and people who've proven that they're some of the best in the world.

It's generally done as a trust exercise. But it's only done by the people who are at the absolute top of their game and whose missions will be the ones where a fuckup gets everybody killed.

Team of experts is different. Endangering a gullible mall ninja to tighten your groups is scumbag behavior. And there are plenty of other ways to involve combat inoculation in training.

 

[Mikewood]

I can understand the value in putting targets out and shooting around them. But if you were to be down range and something bad happened...would your response be the same. You get shot and brush it off with well at least you learned something. You got good training for a situation that most likely will never occur. There are ways to generate that type of atmosphere without putting someone life at risk

I am sorry but I think you are wrong on this. There's no way to simulate a live fire exercise. Yo have to start slow and stay slow just like you see in the video. Take your time and get good hits. But I agree with you in that 99.44% of the people with CHLs will never need to use them. Most that do will have "easy" shots. But this is like a life insurance policy. You train for the 00.66% of the really bad situations. As I said. Shooting is like any martial art. Some people practice contact, some full contact, some with Ratan swords, some blunted and some sharp steel swords.

It's certainly not for everyone. Maybe ony SWAT, Delta and SEALS should be doing this.
But these people are teaching something very dangerous and their doing it the correct way.

 

[Younggun]

I used to practice disarms with cheap airsoft guns and a trigger-happy partner. Good way to know what works and what doesn't.

Stayed with a buddy for a while when i was living in round rock, we wound up with air soft guns and it became a life or pain mission everytime we came home from work, someone was gonna get shot and it sucked to get off work late. Clearing a house ain't easy, and there was a hell of an adrenaline rush. The risk of serious injury was much lower and probably comparable in realism if it were profesional training.

Sometimes i miss that crap but its nice to come home and sit down without worrying about getting shot.

 

[Younggun]

You train for the 00.66% of the really bad situations.

I think the number of situations that would require you to restrain one person while shooting others will be far less than .66%. Possible chance for a malfunction and using your gun as a blunt force weapon, but how will using a real possibly loaded gun be any better than a trainer.

 

[M. Sage]

Team of experts is different. Endangering a gullible mall ninja to tighten your groups is scumbag behavior. And there are plenty of other ways to involve combat inoculation in training.

Yeah, my point is that it's different. Very different. There is zero reason for Bubba and Earl's Tactical Skool to be doing this crap.

These idiots were just showing off for the camera, which is a great way to get someone killed.

 

[Mikewood]

I think the number of situations that would require you to restrain one person while shooting others will be far less than .66%. Possible chance for a malfunction and using your gun as a blunt force weapon, but how will using a real possibly loaded gun be any better than a trainer.

I can't understand or ague the "blue gun" point but it seems the red mags are trainers and they may render the gun inoperable. As for the odd restrain and shoot yea 8-). It's cooky but it's thinking outside the box. Maybe a bit too much for most folks and anyone with hand fighting training sees the holes but damn if it's not intriguing.

 

[M. Sage]

I can't understand or ague the "blue gun" point but it seems the red mags are trainers and they may render the gun inoperable. As for the odd restrain and shoot yea 8-). It's cooky but it's thinking outside the box. Maybe a bit too much for most folks and anyone with hand fighting training sees the holes but damn if it's not intriguing.

They're not red training mags. Look at the video again - douchebag in charge has orange tape on his base plates. All of them. Those are real mags, which means they're live mags.

As for "basics", I've had one "high speed" guy tell me that they don't do anything that isn't basics. They just do it really well.

 

[Texan2]

I can't believe that this guy can get an insurance agent to talk to him much less write a liability policy.
Typical showboating that someone tries to pass off as "training".... He has the obligatory barbwire tat around his bicep to complete the image.

 

[Younggun]

Back off, all of there techniques have been combat tested on "Call of Duty" followed by real world trials on XBOX Live.

 

[M. Sage]

I can't believe that this guy can get an insurance agent to talk to him much less write a liability policy.
Typical showboating that someone tries to pass off as "training".... He has the obligatory barbwire tat around his bicep to complete the image.

They're in the Philippines. Things are a bit different in SW Asia...

 

[jeepinbanditrider]

I've looked around on this and I guess the school is based in the Philippines hence the hospital in "SUBIC BAY". From what I understand the majority of people who attend these courses are folks in China, Japan, ect who are in countries where civilian ownership or even use of real firearms pretty much doesn't happen. It's geared towards those people and explains the asian guy with mullet and suit lol.

The only thing I can remotely think of that is similar is when they are training snipers and they shoot at rising targets at long distances. The targets rise from a giant slot in the ground and there are people at the bottom raising them and reporting whether or not the shot was a hit or not, and where. However, they are down in a ditch with the air above them open.

Any one who has been in the Marine Corps has pulled "butts" anytime they go to the range unless you are in Cali and shot on those new electronic ranges. It's really not a big deal but does give you the idea of what a bullet passing nearby sounds like :P

 

[Texan2]