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  • SIG_Fiend

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    6   0   0
    Feb 21, 2008
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    Austin, TX
    I am sorry but I think you are wrong on this. There's no way to simulate a live fire exercise. Yo have to start slow and stay slow just like you see in the video. Take your time and get good hits. But I agree with you in that 99.44% of the people with CHLs will never need to use them. Most that do will have "easy" shots. But this is like a life insurance policy. You train for the 00.66% of the really bad situations. As I said. Shooting is like any martial art. Some people practice contact, some full contact, some with Ratan swords, some blunted and some sharp steel swords.

    It's certainly not for everyone. Maybe ony SWAT, Delta and SEALS should be doing this.
    But these people are teaching something very dangerous and their doing it the correct way.

    There is nothing I can see that is "advanced" going on in that video. I can, however, see a decent amount that is unnecessary IMO.

    Funny thing is, the recurring theme with most of the BTDT former "tier 1" type instructors out there is primarily focused on mastery of the fundamentals. That is a clue.

    You can simulate various levels and types of stress in training using different stimuli. Shot timers, mental games, verbal commands, complex target arrays and range layouts, auditory stimuli, visual stimuli, and the list goes on. You can't ever simulate actual life or death stress in training, it just isn't going to happen. It's pointless risking someone's life, especially in what looks to be a fairly unadvanced class. I'm not of the "square range" mentality, so don't get me wrong, I just feel there are better and more effective ways than trying to recreate the William Tell shot in class. I don't know anything about the company, it's instructors, or their backgrounds, so it's a little hard to pass judgment.

    What I can say is the vast majority of us, including myself, are not door kickers performing offensive room entries on direct action missions in carjackistan. While there is a wide variety of people here on TGT, civies, Mil, LEO's, I think it's important to put things in perspective. We need to consider each of our individual "lanes", and what our own individual training needs are. The universal training necessity we ALL need is mastery of the fundamentals. Beyond that, seek out training that's appropriate to your needs. If you're a civilian and focused on defensive carry, go seek out a guy like Southnarc, or any other number of excellent instructors that deal with the hands on gritty reality of grappling and guns. That's your reality, and in all honesty their is plenty of validity and usefulness for LEO's and Mil guys with those types of classes as well IMO. If you are military and in that environment, there might be a lot beneficial in taking classes from experienced BTDT types that understand the environment and circumstances you are/will be operating under. They can provide valuable insight you probably won't get elsewhere. A civilian can sometimes probably take away some positive things from such classes but, probably more so once that student understands what is relevant for their specific needs. I'm starting to ramble on, but I hope this makes sense. There is no secret sauce, there is no magic ravioli.
    Hurley's Gold
     

    lalonguecarabine

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    Oct 3, 2009
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    I can't understand or ague the "blue gun" point but it seems the red mags are trainers and they may render the gun inoperable. As for the odd restrain and shoot yea 8-). It's cooky but it's thinking outside the box. Maybe a bit too much for most folks and anyone with hand fighting training sees the holes but damn if it's not intriguing.

    You have a surprisingly scary lack of attention to detail to be defending this BS!

    Re-watch the video! Several shots are made with the "red mags" still in place.
     

    RetArmySgt

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    Aug 14, 2009
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    In basic for the Army we did do live fire "buddy rushes" and other live fire where we got to hear rounds pass very close by. But we did runs with no weapons, then unloaded weapons, then blanks and finally live fire. But nothing that stupid, unless you want to talk about the NIC (night infiltration course) where they throw grenade sims into pits as we crawl by and fire several 240B's over our heads. But we do it to so that when we have to we know somewhat of what to expect.
     

    40Arpent

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    5   0   0
    Jul 16, 2008
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    99.44% of the people with CHLs ....00.66% of the really bad situations

    I'm lost in your math. 99.44% of CHL holders and .66% of situations? Huh? And add the two and you get 100.1%? Uh what?

    Would YOU particpate in that training course? And if so, based on your logic, wouldn't it be more effective training for those "bad situations" to have someone firing back at you? Would you participate in that type of training also?
     

    Younggun

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    6   0   0
    Jul 31, 2011
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    In basic for the Army we did do live fire "buddy rushes" and other live fire where we got to hear rounds pass very close by. But we did runs with no weapons, then unloaded weapons, then blanks and finally live fire. But nothing that stupid, unless you want to talk about the NIC (night infiltration course) where they throw grenade sims into pits as we crawl by and fire several 240B's over our heads. But we do it to so that when we have to we know somewhat of what to expect.

    I remember the''cover me while i move'' drills, and the NIC, but the nic rounds were fired fairly high and if i remember right we were crawling under barbed wire through the entire course, that was one of the funnest(sp) things i remember from basic, man the simulated mortar pits were LOUD.

    Still don't remember a &'stand by the target while i shoot'' drill. Lol
     

    ChunkyMonkey

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    Apr 17, 2011
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    San Antonio, Tx
    I'm lost in your math. 99.44% of CHL holders and .66% of situations? Huh? And add the two and you get 100.1%? Uh what?

    Would YOU particpate in that training course? And if so, based on your logic, wouldn't it be more effective training for those "bad situations" to have someone firing back at you? Would you participate in that type of training also?

    Dammit..you beat me to the math, LOL.
     

    RstyShcklfrd

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    3   0   0
    Mar 23, 2011
    10,056
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    Dallas
    When I saw this video, I was laughing through most of it until they got to the "Trust your partner" portion. I then proceeded to say, "Holy shi*."

    Also, the guy with the COD mask is a perfect touch to the video.
     

    RetArmySgt

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    2   0   0
    Aug 14, 2009
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    I remember the''cover me while i move'' drills, and the NIC, but the nic rounds were fired fairly high and if i remember right we were crawling under barbed wire through the entire course, that was one of the funnest(sp) things i remember from basic, man the simulated mortar pits were LOUD.

    Still don't remember a &'stand by the target while i shoot'' drill. Lol

    Part is under barbed wire others you have to crawl over logs and in and out of trenches. But the MG were fired about 2.5 feet over our heads.
     

    Jakashh

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    Jun 30, 2010
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    Sugar Land
    Part is under barbed wire others you have to crawl over logs and in and out of trenches. But the MG were fired about 2.5 feet over our heads.

    How often does stuff like what happened in Jarhead actually happen, where the guy freaks out and stands up and gets shot by the M60 in the head? I didn't know they actually used live ammo for that stuff.
     

    Younggun

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    Jul 31, 2011
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    How often does stuff like what happened in Jarhead actually happen, where the guy freaks out and stands up and gets shot by the M60 in the head? I didn't know they actually used live ammo for that stuff.

    I only know of one time when someone was hit at Ft jackson a while back(5 yrs maybe), think they were killed but don't remember, you know its live ammo from the tracers.
     

    Outbreak

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    Jan 30, 2010
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    Abilene, TX
    I posted this on another board under the title, "Darwin's School of Combatives."

    If one of the students gets killed, that's natural selection in action. If you choose to stand down range of amateur shooters with live ammo, you are not the fittest.
     

    AKM

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    Sep 29, 2011
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    Stayed with a buddy for a while when i was living in round rock, we wound up with air soft guns and it became a life or pain mission everytime we came home from work, someone was gonna get shot and it sucked to get off work late. Clearing a house ain't easy, and there was a hell of an adrenaline rush. The risk of serious injury was much lower and probably comparable in realism if it were profesional training.

    Sometimes i miss that crap but its nice to come home and sit down without worrying about getting shot.

    I'm pretty sure my buddy lost a deposit do to this same situation LOL..
     

    Mic

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    Jan 3, 2009
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    holy crap!!!

    also, dude with the funny haircut and tie makes me laugh...who shows up dressed like that to an outdoors training course?

    I personally feel that this is most appropriate if that is what the guy wears to work everyday.
    The opposite of what a lot of people (this is hearsay based on what my buddy tells me) tend to wear to IDPA type scenarios where they require drawing from concealment - they tend to wear concealment vests - the kind that they can easily swing open to draw, but it is unlikely any of them ever wear them in public.
     

    jeepinbanditrider

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    Jun 2, 2011
    842
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    Dallas
    I personally feel that this is most appropriate if that is what the guy wears to work everyday.
    The opposite of what a lot of people (this is hearsay based on what my buddy tells me) tend to wear to IDPA type scenarios where they require drawing from concealment - they tend to wear concealment vests - the kind that they can easily swing open to draw, but it is unlikely any of them ever wear them in public.

    Pretty much spot on honestly. Anyone who is competitive wears them. I tend to wear what I'd be wearing in public. During the winter a jacket during the summer a large tshirt or button down shirt.

    I also run my Glock 26. I usually have someone ask me if I have something bigger and I jut tell them this is what I carry everyday.

    But that's just me I don't shot competition to compete as funny as that sounds I shoot to get trigger time off the square range and could care less about the competing side of the deal.

    But other folks like to compete and that's what floats their boat and that's cool with me too :)


    Sent from my iPhone
     

    London

    The advocate's Devil.
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    6   0   0
    Sep 28, 2010
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    Twilight Zone
    I forwarded the video to a martial artist buddy of mine and here's the conversation we had:

    Cody Hoffstatter It looks fun. Tell me you wouldn't go.

    Tyler London I'd rather not get shot by some Mall-Ninja Call of Duty veteran who thinks the shit he sees on tv and video games are a good idea to use in real life! I think it's pretty obvious these guys should finish mastering their Escrima before they declare themselves masters of the pistol. I trust my son with a gun more than these guys.



    Cody Hoffstatter All I'm saying is a bunch of guys playing around with loaded guns is always a good idea. Especially if they are dumb.


    Tyler London I fully support that as long as I am out of firing range!


    By the way, pretty cool that TGT can directly copy and paste the pictures and format of a website. Nice!
     

    espy59lc

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    Dec 9, 2010
    662
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    San Antonio
    This video has 43 likes and 290 dislikes! haha! And they disabled the comments...wonder why. I bet every comment was saying how stupid that shit is
     
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