DHS buying new targets that look like you

[riata2]

» DHS Supplier Provides Shooting Targets of American Gun Owners Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

 

[Gramps]

So what? It's a training tool. The aversion to killing a fellow human is incredible and at a very primal level. For instance approximately 15% of soldiers in WWII shot to kill and by Vietnam the number was as high as 90%. This is due to training, conditioning the soldiers to kill.

Officers are typically poorly training in gunfighting, the level of shots fired to hits is pitifully low. I have no problem training officers with the best and latest technology & psychology available.

 

[deemus]

So what? It's a training tool. The aversion to killing a fellow human is incredible and at a very primal level. For instance approximately 15% of soldiers in WWII shot to kill and by Vietnam the number was as high as 90%. This is due to training, conditioning the soldiers to kill.

Officers are typically poorly training in gunfighting, the level of shots fired to hits is pitifully low. I have no problem training officers with the best and latest technology & psychology available.

Please tell me this is sarcasm. I find this article very disturbing.

 

[Glockster69]

Please tell me this is sarcasm. I find this article very disturbing.

No sarcasm. Just saw several of the pics in CHL refresher yesterday.
It's about training / survival.

BTW: no A Jones fan here either

 

[deemus]

No, not sarcasm. Just saw several of the pics in CHL refresher yesterday.
It's about training / survival.

BTW: no A Jones fan here either

This is about desensitising, not training.

Ignore who the story is from..

 

[Gramps]

Deemus no that is not sarcasm. If encountered would James Holmes, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Clebold, Seung-Hui Cho, Aly Syed, Jeffery Johnson, and many other shooters fit the traditional role? All I'm saying is officers, soldiers, and civilians must practice with realistic targets to overcome the aversion to killing, well that is only part of it, however, it does help. Hell look at the reports of officers missing the target in NY near the Empire State building, reportedly officers shot 16 times, connecting with only 7 shots.

I don't have the sources in front of my but Lt. Dave Grossman wrote On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society. This book provides detailed research on killing, the primal aversion to killing and the psychological and physiological effects.

Edit to add - I only mean the targets. The article is for the tin foil hat crowd.

 

[txinvestigator]

Please tell me this is sarcasm. I find this article very disturbing.

I agree the article is disturbing. Law Enforcement use of such targets does not disturb. And this is not new. Way back in 1983 when I was in the Police Academy we used such targets.

Non issue used by the tin foil hat crowd.

 

[txinvestigator]

This is about desensitising, not training.

Ignore who the story is from..

Proper training requires that. I understand your reaction, but an examination of the human mind and the aversion to using deadly logically explains why this is necessary. I suggest you read the excellent book by Col. Dave Grossman, On Killing

 

[AcidFlashGordon]

<---- (none of those look like me

)



...and I'm a veteran, a retired old fart and one pissed off individual....

 

[Doc Roe]

The only thing here that has me creeped out is the fact that one of the targets is a pregnant woman... Desensitizing or not, that's taking things a bit too far in my mind.

 

[AcidFlashGordon]

The only thing here that has me creeped out is the fact that one of the targets is a pregnant woman... Desensitizing or not, that's taking things a bit too far in my mind.

The entire thing is FUBAR. Instead of worrying about "foreigners" who would be the terrorist/criminal/gang threat, they're concentrating on United States citizens. I guess they didn't want to be called racist if they had ordered targets that look Middle Eastern or Hispanic.

 

[Texanjoker]

No story here. Just paranoid people. All the targets are holding guns, and going through a shoot, one will think twice seeing the various targets and learn from it. ANYBODY pointing a gun at you can be a threat.

 

[London]

Can't wait till over-eager cops display "No more hesitation" to shoot little kids with airsoft guns.

I guess the mentality is that hesitation gets people killed? Well so does mindless instant reaction.

 

[General Zod]

Yeah, I'd rather not have any law enforcement official be "de-sensitized" to shooting women with children around them on a playground, kids with what may or may not be a real gun, old folks, and pregnant women. I'm of the opinion that drawing a bead on any of these individuals should be an agonizing decision and pulling the trigger should be a last resort, not something they'll just do on instinct when they fall back on their training.

 

[Doc Roe]

Can't wait till over-eager cops display "No more hesitation" to shoot little kids with airsoft guns.

I guess the mentality is that hesitation gets people killed? Well so does mindless instant reaction.

That kind of shit already happens. I remember hearing something last year about some kid who brought a CO[SUP]2[/SUP]-powered BB gun into school and wound up getting shot when he aimed it at a cop. That's why it's federal law that all airsot guns have at -least- a 1/4 inch blaze-orange section at the muzzle.

 

[txinvestigator]

Can't wait till over-eager cops display "No more hesitation" to shoot little kids with airsoft guns.

I guess the mentality is that hesitation gets people killed? Well so does mindless instant reaction.

You are assuming a lot of facts based on the target. Where did you see that shooting a little kid with an airsoft gun would be a training standard? Where did you see that they are NOT training to better observe and make decisions.

 

[General Zod]

And all it takes is a kid with a Sharpie wanting to make his airsoft gun look more "real" to eliminate that orange muzzle.

 

[txinvestigator]

That kind of shit already happens. I remember hearing something last year about some kid who brought a CO[SUP]2[/SUP]-powered BB gun into school and wound up getting shot when he aimed it at a cop. That's why it's federal law that all airsot guns have at -least- a 1/4 inch blaze-orange section at the muzzle.

How old was said kid? What did the BB gun look like? I had one as a kid that looked just like a 1911, especially when pointed at you. Would YOU not use deadly force in response to someone pointing what appeared to be a 1911 at you? Remember, you have a fraction of a second to decide.

 

[Doc Roe]

How old was said kid? What did the BB gun look like? I had one as a kid that looked just like a 1911, especially when pointed at you. Would YOU not use deadly force in response to someone pointing what appeared to be a 1911 at you? Remember, you have a fraction of a second to decide.

IIRC he was 11 years old (old enough to know better, in other words), and the pistol looked like a Glock 19 that had been fitted with a .22 conversion and had a weird tab thing sticking out from the magazine floor-plate (chamber for the gas cartridge in reality).

And honestly, I don't feel bad for the kid. He fucked up, he paid the price. If I were in that cop's position, I'm pretty damn certain that I'd pull the trigger as well (used to run sims with a group of friends back when I was still into airsoft. Not the same as legit FxF training, but it's close enough for my tastes).

 

[Rogue]

The pregnant woman is going a little too far IMHO. Anyways, what pregnant woman wouldn't want to defend herself and unborn child?