Father fatally shoots intruder - 16 year old daughter

[Axxe55]

I'd be fine with a conviction and no prison, with the facts I have heard...

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If he is charged and it goes to trial, I see this case being an extremely difficult one for everyone involved. It is a very emotionally charged case, and no matter the outcome, there are no winners, only losers.

Personally, I would not want to be on that jury.

 

[oldag]

I would add, cg, it is not that I cannot see your point. Your point is not without a degree of logic.

However, discretion occasionally legitimately plays a part in such considerations.

 

[Axxe55]

Your lasts paragraph is a straw man. That is not the situation here.

And he is related to all those same people you mention.

Exactly what justice is served? And how is it served?

We ain't gonna agree on this.

I can see the point that @cycleguy2300 is making, and he makes a valid point, just as you do.

The very points both of you make are exactly why I'm conflicted in my own opinions.

Hence my post #141.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I would add, cg, it is not that I cannot see your point. Your point is not without a degree of logic.

However, discretion occasionally legitimately plays a part in such considerations.

Let me say I really am not beating the war drum to have this man tried and convicted. I just don't know that "it was his own daughter" is a good reason not to...

I fully agree with the exercise of discretion, however my disposition to the dispensation of law lessens somewhat as the seriousness of the action increases. Loss of life is pretty high on my scale.

This is truly a worst case scenario. Despite my perhaps cavalier attitude it is there often to hide my tenderness. I simply cannot fathom the depths of despair this man is going through over this...

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[Axxe55]

Let me throw out another perspective of looking at this.

I think most of conclude that it was never his intent to shoot and kill his daughter. It was an accident. (And I use that term loosely and for the sake of brevity of the discussion.)

I can't even imagine the emotions that man is going through, but I have to assume they are overwhelming right now. the depths of guilt he feels for his actions. I'm sure his conscience is torturing him every waking moment. He probably can't find any way that he can forgive himself for what he has done.

Maybe being charged and either accepting a guilty plea, or going to trial and being found guilty, would be a path of atonement for his actions of killing his own daughter.

Whether he is charged or not, whether he is found guilty or not, he will suffer every day he is alive. Every birthday, every holiday, every life event that comes and goes for the rest of his life will bring him suffering and sorrow.

At some he will have to find forgiveness, and to forgive himself. That is the biggest obstacle in his life right now.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Let me throw out another perspective of looking at this.

I think most of conclude that it was never his intent to shoot and kill his daughter. It was an accident. (And I use that term loosely and for the sake of brevity of the discussion.)

I can't even imagine the emotions that man is going through, but I have to assume they are overwhelming right now. the depths of guilt he feels for his actions. I'm sure his conscience is torturing him every waking moment. He probably can't find any way that he can forgive himself for what he has done.

Maybe being charged and either accepting a guilty plea, or going to trial and being found guilty, would be a path of atonement for his actions of killing his own daughter.

Whether he is charged or not, whether he is found guilty or not, he will suffer every day he is alive. Every birthday, every holiday, every life event that comes and goes for the rest of his life will bring him suffering and sorrow.

At some he will have to find forgiveness, and to forgive himself. That is the biggest obstacle in his life right now.

That is a long time coming baby boy. How do you look at yourself. Your wife and kids.
Old heads here remember when I almost killed my wife on a nd I still have nightmares about it so if I had would prison have changed anything?
Except I do time with my guilt

 

[Axxe55]

That is a long time coming baby boy. How do you look at yourself. Your wife and kids.
Old heads here remember when I almost killed my wife on a nd I still have nightmares about it so if I had would prison have changed anything?
Except I do time with my guilt

I agree. I do think him obtaining forgiveness is long way down the road. Personally, that is between him and God at this point.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

I agree. I do think him obtaining forgiveness is long way down the road. Personally, that is between him and God at this point.

The only place that will come from

 

[Axxe55]

The only place that will come from

His suffering and guilt are the punishment he has to pay.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…I just don't know that "it was his own daughter" is a good reason not to...

I don’t disagree. I’ve only looked at this case at the surface level and Texas statutes, but who was killed is an emotional red herring.

The question is whether the actor had the statutory reasonableness to justify use of force and use of deadly force. If yes, then the question becomes whether the actor recklessly caused injury/death of an innocent third party, as that removes justification as a defense.

Unfortunately, the code doesn’t explicitly require unambiguous target identification as a condition for either justification or recklessness. TPC 19 does state reckless death of an individual is the element for Manslaughter.

I *think* the code’s intent is somewhere around the fact that the word negligence/negligent never appears in TPC 9. Reckless does, though and the bar for recklessness is being aware of but consciously disregarding a substantial, unjustified risk of injury/death such that it’s a gross deviation from the regard given by a law-abiding citizen.

I *think* it could be argued the average person, if asked ‘Would you expect your child to be present in the garage and doing something loud enough to wake you at, say, 0430?’, would tell them no, that kid should be in bed.

Given that, then the bar for reckless injury/death of an innocent is not statutorily met, therefore leaving it up to a jury to decide, and no (well maybe some politically motivated) prosecutor wants to take that case to a jury, public perception of cruel and unusual and all that.

 

[Younggun]

Thinking like "he's a father and he feels pain" is no excuse for committing a criminal offense.
Acquitting someone based on feelings really defeats the whole point of the jury of 12 peers.

No it doesn’t. If anything it reinforces the notion of having a jury of our peers.


There’s a reason jury nullification is a thing. Because sometimes the justice system just isn’t fit to handle a certain situation.


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[kyletxria1911a1]

His suffering and guilt are the punishment he has to pay.

Brother trust me when I say I'm in the same boat.
And time doesn't heal all wounds.
Guilt rides you into the sunset. It drives you into the ground. It robs you of sleep it haunts you out of nowhere.
It is a very hard row to hoe.

 

[Axxe55]

No it doesn’t. If anything it reinforces the notion of having a jury of our peers.


There’s a reason jury nullification is a thing. Because sometimes the justice system just isn’t fit to handle a certain situation.


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Exactly. I'm pretty sure if this did go to trial, there are going to fathers and mothers sitting on that jury. A good defense attorney would for sure be playing on the emotions of that jury, and trying think of themselves in that same situation.

Even if he is charged, there is also the very good chance he may opt to take a plea bargain to avoid a trial simply to avoid the publicity a trial would bring forth. Preventing more unneeded suffering and pain for the family and friends.

 

[Axxe55]

Brother trust me when I say I'm in the same boat.
And time doesn't heal all wounds.
Guilt rides you into the sunset. It drives you into the ground. It robs you of sleep it haunts you out of nowhere.
It is a very hard row to hoe.

You have my prayers my friend.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

You have my prayers my friend.

Thanks brother

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Thinking like "he's a father and he feels pain" is no excuse for committing a criminal offense.
Acquitting someone based on feelings really defeats the whole point of the jury of 12 peers.

You ever been charged with anything serious

 

[Axxe55]

You ever been charged with anything serious

Some people also don't understand the concept of justice should be tempered with mercy.

People are human, and they make mistakes. Even very tragic and life-changing mistakes like with this father and his daughter.

 

[Younggun]

Exactly. I'm pretty sure if this did go to trial, there are going to fathers and mothers sitting on that jury. A good defense attorney would for sure be playing on the emotions of that jury, and trying think of themselves in that same situation.

Even if he is charged, there is also the very good chance he may opt to take a plea bargain to avoid a trial simply to avoid the publicity a trial would bring forth. Preventing more unneeded suffering and pain for the family and friends.

Just as prosecutors often do when pushing for a conviction.


It’s fine that others disagree though, that’s why we have 12 on a jury instead of 1.


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[kyletxria1911a1]

Some people also don't understand the concept of justice should be tempered with mercy.

People are human, and they make mistakes. Even very tragic and life-changing mistakes like with this father and his daughter.

Not until they want a little mercy

 

[DoubleDuty]

If I was on the jury I wouldn't convict he is wrecked for life. What good is prison time

Exactly its a tragic accident