Gonna go out on a limb here....

[Glockster69]

Skinman I too want you to hang around.

And speaking of hypocrisy, didn't you jump my junk for getting off topic

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

A Man DIED due to that bad decision!!!!!!!Y

Well Skeeter, a man dying is bad enough in itself. But it goes much deeper than that. More than one man died. Hundreds of people are dead. That is crossing the line from a botched operation that was 100% illegal and had nothing but the most Anti American of intentions from the beginning, to downright atrocities and crimes against humanity. We're talking mass casualties here.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

The point is not about Bush, it is about Republican hypocrisy. Good people die every day due to bad decisions made in good faith...However, speaking about Bush, how do you reconcile the 4,800 brave young American men and women KIA in Iraq because of a bad decision by Bush based on lies from underlings? Who was held accountable for that mess? Do you really want to go there?

You know what, I just had an epiphany. You're totally right. This has nothing to do with Eric Holder and the Obama administration. Especially not that video I posted a few minutes ago. This is, now that you mention it, all the Republicans' fault. How could I have not seen this before? Must be a victim of brainwashing in this political witch hunt that is clearly being orchestrated, not to get to the bottom of a truly devastatingly failed, ILLEGAL operation, and possibly give the families of the victimS some closure, or some answers at least. This is a pure mudslinging campaign, with the intentions of nothing more than destroying Holder's and Obama's name. I mean, how could Holder possibly be lying here? Here, I posted the link of the video, again, the video that I initially thought was Holder LYING even when he knew he was caught, but now realize it is nothing more than a rightist political witch hunt. Here's that folly of a video, again:

Holder Lies Under Oath: e-mails Containing Words Fast & Furious Don't Refer to Case! - YouTube

So I guess now we can get to the real topic. The main topic of this thread. Iraq. LMAO. That was a joke, just a jokie joke.

 

[TrailDust]

G'head. Call me a racist - I'm not. Call me a Republican - I'm not. Call me a right-wing extremist - I'm not. What I am is correct about everything I said above. The fact that I (and others) can sit here and talk about FnF using facts and you have to rebut with personal attacks and straw men tells us everything we need to know.

+1

Well Skeeter, a man dying is bad enough in itself. But it goes much deeper than that. More than one man died. Hundreds of people are dead. That is crossing the line from a botched operation that was 100% illegal and had nothing but the most Anti American of intentions from the beginning, to downright atrocities and crimes against humanity. We're talking mass casualties here.

And to quote Rush Limbaugh, the following I agree 100% with:

The purpose of this was to gin up anti-Amendment 2 sentiment among the people of this country. The objective was -- and this is where the irony steps in -- the objective was to have news stories where everybody was shocked and stunned and saddened, guns purchased by drug cartel members in America. Look how easy it was, end up in Mexico, owned by violent drug gangs, and used in the commission of heinous crimes. Why, our gun laws are too lax. The sentiment in this country among the people is to maintain the Second Amendment. The America people don't want, by a vast majority, any gun control legislation. But that doesn't matter to people like President Kardashian or Eric Holder or any of the Democrat Party or the left.

They don't want you to have guns, and so it doesn't matter about the Constitution and it doesn't matter about the will of the American people. If they don't want you to have guns they're gonna try to find a way to make sure that you don't. And that's what Fast and Furious was, as simply put as I can make it. Obama has dragged this on for years. He has never had any intention to cooperate, nor has Holder. It was the arming of violent gangs in Mexico with American weapons purchased in American gun stores resulting in the death of scores of people. Obama has never explained the details of what occurred to anybody, not the media, not investigators, not Congress. He is the head of the executive branch, so he asserts executive privilege. Meanwhile, he pretends that he knew nothing, but he's trying to protect himself.

 

[TundraWookiee]

Interesting comment considering the Republican refusal to hold the last president accountable...

And, yeah, I spent a lot of years in the US Navy and anyone who has served knows that decisions are made above your rank, and sometimes shit happens and good people get hurt as a result.

Now, putting your political biases aside, what is justice here? Holder is done. The House Republicans need to move on and get to the business of governing.

Political bias? Did I once mention a particular party or candidate? Since I don't believe the president should get away with his involvement I must automatically be a republican right? Just because I dislike Obama doesn't mean I necessarily approve of every other president's actions or any other candidate's entire platform.

I believe the whole plan was implemented in an attempt to push through more anti-gun legislature and as a gun enthusiast and advocate, I'm not willing to just let it slide. You may be okay tolerating incompetence and underhanded ploys amongst your employees but not all of us are going to shrug it off.

You're entitled to your opinions but I'm not sure I understand why you're on a gun forum when you're so obviously biased against gun rights.

Brought to you courtesy of Tapatalk

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

I never have been too fond of Romney but Obama is making me like him more and more every day. I think Romney is the last hope for this nation, and even he can't be trusted. If and when he gets elected he needs to be reminded every single day he is in office who he works for.

 

[M. Sage]

And, yeah, I spent a lot of years in the US Navy and anyone who has served knows that decisions are made above your rank, and sometimes shit happens and good people get hurt as a result.

A: They are not "above" my or your grade. We are their bosses.

B: Several hundred dead Mexicans is "shit happens?" Wow.

Ya wanna know if I am a gun enthusiast? And you are questioning this because we do not agree on political issues? How naive! Show up at the Houston shoot next weekend and see...

And, I gave up on posting on the politics because of things like you just posted...personal attacks and not discussing the points.

However, if ya'll want, I will stop participating and you folks can just go on agreeing with each other and never having to really discuss and defend your opinions. Makes no difference to me.

Peace, out

You haven't made a point. You've just come in with your whining about Republicans and vast right wing conspiracies trying to keep the black man down. Your first post made clear that you thought anybody who disagreed was in lockstep with some hard right that honestly doesn't even exist in this country.

It's people like you that have driven me away from politics. People who refuse to see the truth when presented. People who will lie to themselves so that their belief system won't be shaken up.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Show up at the Houston shoot next weekend and see...

Haha, Range Day on the 30th is gonna get rowdy! No politics talk at lunch! Lol.

 

[texas skeeter]

Just because I dislike Obama doesn't mean I necessarily approve of every other president's actions or any other candidate's entire platform.

Well Said!!! Pretty much where i stand as well. I was Madder than hell at ol Bush as well. But some round here dont honestly remember when the DEMS were investigating ol Chaney/Bush relentlessly!!

 

[TrailDust]

It's people like you that have driven me away from politics. People who refuse to see the truth when presented. People who will lie to themselves so that their belief system won't be shaken up.

This is why providing facts to liberals is like showing a crucifix to Dracula. Believers in Al Gore's global warming farce run when faced with facts. I love it myself. Present the undeniable facts, watch non-fact based people meltdown (no pun intended), and you end up with a number of converts who see the truth as presented.

 

[skinman]

Haha, Range Day on the 30th is gonna get rowdy! No politics talk at lunch! Lol.

When I discuss politics, I get on my soapbox and discuss politics...when I shoot, I focus on trying to make all my bullets go into one little hole...can't do both at the same time. Besides, I learned a long time ago that most good folks are usually far more civil discussing political and social issues face-to-face than on discussion forums.

 

[skinman]

+1

And to quote Rush Limbaugh, the following I agree 100% with:

I was wondering when someone was going to quote some drivel from that draft-dodging, drug addict, windbag.

 

[skinman]

Political bias? Did I once mention a particular party or candidate? Since I don't believe the president should get away with his involvement I must automatically be a republican right? Just because I dislike Obama doesn't mean I necessarily approve of every other president's actions or any other candidate's entire platform.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..............

I believe the whole plan was implemented in an attempt to push through more anti-gun legislature and as a gun enthusiast and advocate, I'm not willing to just let it slide. You may be okay tolerating incompetence and underhanded ploys amongst your employees but not all of us are going to shrug it off.

You're entitled to your opinions but I'm not sure I understand why you're on a gun forum when you're so obviously biased against gun rights.

Brought to you courtesy of Tapatalk

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I believe that this operation was exactly what it appears to have been, an attempt to fight the flow of weapons from this country to Mexico by identifying all the players and trying to bring them all down and not just the dumb smucks doing the straw purchases. It was a stupid plan that went wrong with tragic results. Trying claim that this is all part of some mythical Democrat gun control conspiricy is really reaching way out there in la-la land...

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. "


I can buy that maybe the gun walking was a huge bonehead plan and not political, but the coverup afterwards wasn't. It was definitely intentional.

I thought a good chunk of Bush's actions were unconstitutional, but Obama has taken it to a new level.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

It's people like you that have driven me away from politics. People who refuse to see the truth when presented. People who will lie to themselves so that their belief system won't be shaken up.

I think it's more along the lines of people who supported Obama in 08 not wanting to admit just how tragically wrong they were in doing that. And I have re-read every single post in this thread, just to be sure of myself before I say this, there is no political bias in this thread, and there is nothing politically biased about trying to get to the bottom of an all out massacre. A massacre that was facilitated for one reason and one reason only, to trample on the 2nd Amendment. I can't see how anyone can possibly deny that. Eric Holder has been quoted as saying, "we just need to 'brainwash' the public into hating guns". And then this happens. Its like, if you didn't see thru him before, he's 100% transparent now, and tragically, people had to die for that to be seen. Any government that wants to take all the power to D.C. is bad news, that is a pretty simple rule of thumb to live by, politically.

 

[Domineaux]

I do not think FF has been swept under the rug. I think that questions were asked and answered, and the House Republicans did not get the answers they wanted, and they need to keep this diversion in the news to keep us from looking too hard at their candidate and lack of platform.

Every effort by the administration and DOJ/ATF has been to sweep this under the rug. The ONLY reasons for this being in the public eye are agency whistle blowers, conservative bloggers and "citizen journalists" and a few Republican Congressman and Senators. If those House Republicans weren't staying after it, this would have all been swept under the run a year before the election so that everyone would have had time to ignore it since it received almost no major media coverage.

This whole FF program was FUBAR from the beginning. It was ill conceived and poorly implemented and carried out, and those directly responsible have paid the price.

Yeah, those in the ATF that were directly controlling it have either been promoted or moved on to bigger and better things such as being Dean at a nice leftist University because they have shown so much character in their government work. The investigation has been going on for over 18 months and no one has been fired/demoted/suspended/etc at all and the internal DOJ investigation won't have anything to report till after the election in Nov....how convenient.

I believe that this operation was exactly what it appears to have been, an attempt to fight the flow of weapons from this country to Mexico by identifying all the players and trying to bring them all down and not just the dumb smucks doing the straw purchases. It was a stupid plan that went wrong with tragic results. Trying claim that this is all part of some mythical Democrat gun control conspiricy is really reaching way out there in la-la land...

Good boy, you are being a proper little sheep and "believing" what they want you to believe. Don't let any facts get in the way of your belief (you sure it isn't just feelings?) such as the fact that no tracking devices were used on the guns, Mexican authorities were never informed much less asked to be involved, Agents were repeatedly told to stand down or stop following when requesting authorization to interdict as they knew the guns were about to get "into the wild", Agents being told to get with the program and threatened when raising complaints with superiors about the fact that guns were being allowed to be "lost" and the fact that these guns would absolutely be showing up at murder scenes or the fact that as guns were being reported at murder scenes in Mexico the ATF officials were excited about the results the were seeing and discussing via email how to use the reports to back a push for "demand letter 3" requiring that border state FFL dealers would have to report multiple sales of any rifles over .22 that have detachable mags.

Oh and just to that you can feel extra proud, know that your tax dollars were directly involved in this entire "stupid plan" as additional funding was provided through $10million from the stimulus plan.

 

[scap99]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..............



Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I believe that this operation was exactly what it appears to have been, an attempt to fight the flow of weapons from this country to Mexico by identifying all the players and trying to bring them all down and not just the dumb smucks doing the straw purchases. It was a stupid plan that went wrong with tragic results. Trying claim that this is all part of some mythical Democrat gun control conspiricy is really reaching way out there in la-la land...

Democrat gun control is not myth.
Here's a list of known anti gun orgs. How many republican groups do you see???
All I see is Democrat and Liberal

AARP
AFL-CIO
Ambulatory Pediatric Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Civil Liberties Union
American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing
American Medical Women`s Association
American Medical Student Association
American Medical Association
American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
American Trauma Society
American Federation of Teachers
American Association of School Administrators
American Alliance for Rights and Responsibilities
American Medical Association
American Bar Association
American Counseling Association
American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association for World Health
American Ethical Union
American Nurses Association
American Association of Neurological Surgeons
American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences
American Firearms Association
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Jewish Committee
American Trauma Society
American Psychological Association
American Jewish Congress
American Public Health Association
Americans for Democratic Action
Anti-Defamation League
Black Mental Health Alliance
B`nai B`rith
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Children`s Defense Fund
Church of the Brethren
Coalition for Peace Action
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
College Democrats of America
Committee for the Study of Handgun Misuse & World Peace
Common Cause
Congress of National Black Churches, Inc.
Congress of Neurological Surgeons
Consumer Federation of America
Council of the Great City Schools
Council of Chief State School Officers
Dehere Foundation
Disarm Educational Fund
Environmental Action Foundation
Episcopal Church-Washington Office
Florence and John Shumann Foundation
Friends Committee on National Legislation
General Federation of Women`s Clubs
George Gund Fun
Gray Panthers
H.M. Strong Foundation
Hadassah
Harris Foundation
Hechinger Foundation
Interfaith Neighbors
Int`l Ladies` Garment Workers` Union
Int`l Association of Educators for World Peace
Jewish Labor Committee
Joyce Foundation
Lauder Foundation
Lawrence Foundation
League of Women Voters of the United States*
Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Manhattan Project II
Mennonite Central Committee-Washington Office
National Safe Kids Campaign
National Association of Police Organizations
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
National Black Nurses` Association
National Association of Chain Drug Stores
National Network for Youth
National Assembly of National Voluntary Health & Social Welfare Organizations
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Counties*
National Association of Pediatric Nurse Associates & Practitioners
National Association of School Safety and Law Enforcement Officers
National Education Association
National Association of Elementary School Principals*
National Association of Public Hospitals
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
National Association of Secondary School Principals
National Association of Social Workers
National Association of Children`s Hospitals and Related Institutions
National Association of School Psychologists
National Council of La Raza
National Center to Rehabilitate Violent Youth
National Commission for Economic Conversion & Disarmament
National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA
National Council of Negro Women
National Association of Community Health Centers
National People`s Action
National Education Association*
National League of Cities
National Council on Family Relations
National Council of Jewish Women
National Organization for Women
National Political Congress of Black Women
National Parks and Conservation Association
National Peace Foundation
National Urban League, Inc.
National Parent, Teachers Association*
National Urban Coalition
National SAFE KIDS Campaign
National Organization on Disability
National Spinal Cord Injury Association
NETWORK: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby
Ortenberg Foundation
Peace Action
People for the American Way
Physicians for Social Responsibility
Police Foundation
Project on Demilitarization and Democracy
Public Citizen
SaferWorld
Society of Critical Care Medicine
Southern Christian Leadership Conference
The Council of the Great City Schools
The Synergetic Society
20/20 Vision
U.S. Catholic Conference, Dept. of Social Development
Union of American Hebrew Congregations
Unitarian Universalist Association
United States Catholic Conference
United Methodist Church, General Board & Church Society
United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society*
United States Conference of Mayors
War and Peace Foundation
Women Strike for Peace
Women`s National Democratic Club
Women`s Action for New Directions (WAND)
Women`s Int`l League for Peace and Freedom
World Spiritual Assembly, Inc.
YWCA of the U.S.A.






Tapatalk sent it.

 

[TundraWookiee]

First of all, am I the only one impressed by the list scap provided using Tapatalk? Regardless of whether he typed or copy and pasted them...that couldn't be fun to do on a mobile device.

As for skinman, you're obviously just one of those people that can't be reasoned with. You've closed your mind off to any objections and just scream political bias as you blatantly reveal your own bias. I'm sure its frustrating having to continually try to bend those pesky facts to fit your beliefs.

Regardless of what you may believe, I'm not republican and I'm also not a democrat. I'm not a racist or some religious zealot. I'm an American who thinks we should hold our elected officials to a higher standard and stop letting them get away with so many horrible decisions or mistakes. But I give up trying to reason with you since you already have your mind made up. I could spout off all of the issues I have with both parties or travesties like the Patriot Act and I'm sure you would still say I quack like a duck when I'm really barking.

Brought to you courtesy of Tapatalk

 

[scap99]

Yeah it was cut and paste from NRA ILA. It was tedious, but I felt strongly enough to post it.

I'm not affiliated to any political party. They all suck.
That said, I see more leftists trying to control my every movement, thought, feeling, etc etc etc than those on the right side of the aisle.





Tapatalk sent it.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

If I'm forced to choose between Democrat and Republican the choice is obvious