Harley Davidson's whining

[easy rider]

There was the guy with a 20' trailer he forgot about. Then another lady at another intersection. The better one was somebody merging into my lane ahead of me. I was in the blind spot so I was at fault. She merged left and I heated the brakes up.

850cc, no muffler. It's never made a difference.

So that discounts everyone else on the road that did hear your bike and knew you were there?

 

[grasshopperglock]

So that discounts everyone else on the road that did hear your bike and knew you were there?

No not at all. Everybody that heard it wasn't the ones pulling out in front of me. I nothing against loud pipes. There's a Harley rider down the street. 96ci with open pipes. I don't care if he racks the engine.

In my own experience. Don't expect people to hear the bike. Don't believe it's some kind of sound insurance. You'll get your a$$ ran over. Loud or quiet.

 

[easy rider]

No not at all. Everybody that heard it wasn't the ones pulling out in front of me. I nothing against loud pipes. There's a Harley rider down the street. 96ci with open pipes. I don't care if he racks the engine.

In my own experience. Don't expect people to hear the bike. Don't believe it's some kind of sound insurance. You'll get your a$$ ran over. Loud or quiet.

I don't expect anything from drivers, hence the "trust no one" comment, but have you ever thought that there could have been more had they not heard you? I don't expect everyone will hear me. There have been times I couldn't hear my own bike over the music blaring from a car at a light, I certainly wouldn't expect that person to hear me. I had said that while riding I like to take advantage of anything that may help to let others know I'm there. I certainly can't account for everyone, but if 99 out of 100 people can hear me, that's certainly better than 1 out of 100.

 

[grasshopperglock]

I don't expect anything from drivers, hence the "trust no one" comment, but have you ever thought that there could have been more had they not heard you? I don't expect everyone will hear me. There have been times I couldn't hear my own bike over the music blaring from a car at a light, I certainly wouldn't expect that person to hear me. I had said that while riding I like to take advantage of anything that may help to let others know I'm there. I certainly can't account for everyone, but if 99 out of 100 people can hear me, that's certainly better than 1 out of 100.

Personally. I've had far fewer close calls with a quiet bike. My scare area for some reason is Salado, Tx. I've had the most interesting road encounters in that city. Killeen is full of motorcycles, dangerous but not scary. Temple has some motorcycles but not in the numbers of Killeen. It's not bad. Never had a problem in Belton. Never had a problem in Austin.

Salado is my red zone. It doesn't matter if it's a loud bike. At least when it's dealing with me.

 

[toddnjoyce]

...you buy the lifestyle at HD and a young 20 something male in skinny Capri pants doesn't want that lifestyle.


Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

This is the challenge the US motorcycle manufacturers and dealers have to overcome.


As a manufacturer HD’s target market is the US. Most every other manufacturer’s target market is the rest of the world. They sell bikes here as a hobby.

Dealer networks exist for all motorcycle manufacturers. When new bike sales don’t generate enough profit for a dealership to survive, the dealer network shrinks. There comes a point where the network doesn’t produce enough profit for the line to be sold here. This is an existential problem.

In general, non-HD powersports dealer networks are staying profitable because of everything but a 2-wheel motorcycle line. ATV, UTV, Watercraft, and those three wheel wonders are what’s keeping the dealers afloat. All those product lines are comparable in price to any bike in the HD line, so there’s money available to enable the purchase. What the market sees is greater value in those non-traditional lines than the HD product line.

As someone mentioned, HD is a brand company. That’s a tough way to make money if you’re not willing to make adjustments in your brand for your target market.

 

[easy rider]

Personally. I've had far fewer close calls with a quiet bike. My scare area for some reason is Salado, Tx. I've had the most interesting road encounters in that city. Killeen is full of motorcycles, dangerous but not scary. Temple has some motorcycles but not in the numbers of Killeen. It's not bad. Never had a problem in Belton. Never had a problem in Austin.

Salado is my red zone. It doesn't matter if it's a loud bike.

I would suggest staying clear of the Midland/Odessa area, many of the drivers here don't really care who else is on the road, motorcycle or not. I love my job, just not crazy where it's located.

 

[diesel1959]

Certainly they could build an engine that ran smooth and did not vibrate, but that is not going to happen with a V twin configuration, as for the vibration, rubber mounts solve that issue, my FXDWG was a rubber mount and had very little vibe and as you pickup the RPM it does smooth out.

Loud pipes save lives, indeed they do, but loud pipes are a choice nothing else, you want quiet then you can have it.

The Honda Sabre 1300 was a pretty damn smooth-running (and idling) V-twin. As was the Honda VTR1000F--an extremely smooth V-twin powered motorcycle. There is NO reason a V-twin has to sound like Harley builds theirs. Technology has come a long way, and the fact of the matter, Harley builds them to make the noise they make because the customer have that expectation.

 

[diesel1959]

Just so it's known, as I was typing those comments, I'm not mad at what has been said. I understand peoples disregard for Harleys and am certainly not trying to sell anyone on Harley or any other motorcycles. I am just relating what I know and what I like. Harleys are not everyone's cup of tea and I ride with people that own many different bikes and we all like our bikes for different reasons. That is the reason my first comment in this thread was "To each their own". I don't care for comments that is based on biased hearsay and have tried to base mine on what I know. Certainly I would like it if every part on my bike was made in America, but then it's hard to find, if not impossible, in any machine sold in the U.S., but it doesn't mean it's a bad product.

I appreciate that and respect your choice--truly. I've just been saying that the Harleys don't NEED to be loud. It's a Harley thing . . . and though I understand, I just see things with an engineer's eye/ear, and know what's possible. :beer:

 

[sharkey]

The OEM non street pipes ony Street Triple sound dcdnt. But the Delkvic pipe on my Viffer is intoxicating. V4 goodness. My neighbor has a Dodge Viper and we can tell when he comes and goes and yeah it is annoying

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Lunyfringe]

I appreciate that and respect your choice--truly. I've just been saying that the Harleys don't NEED to be loud. It's a Harley thing . . . and though I understand, I just see things with an engineer's eye/ear, and know what's possible. :beer:

They meet gov't requirements as manufactured...
But buyers consider this a "Harley tax" to buy pipes to make them more "heard".

I'm an engineer, too... this is NOT an angineering issue... you see what you want to see.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

The Honda Sabre 1300 was a pretty damn smooth-running (and idling) V-twin. As was the Honda VTR1000F--an extremely smooth V-twin powered motorcycle. There is NO reason a V-twin has to sound like Harley builds theirs. Technology has come a long way, and the fact of the matter, Harley builds them to make the noise they make because the customer have that expectation.

You can mitigate the vibration and sound, but as long as the V twin does not fire both cyl concurrently the vibes will be there. Mitigate using different cam profiles, rubber mounts of different Durometers, water jacketing (which IIRC the Honda VTR1000F is water cooled?), lower compression ratio, IIRC the Honda is a 90 degree vs the Harley which is a 60 degree V, this makes a difference in how the harmonics cancel each other out. You get more reduction on a 90 degree V. Bear in mind that for many years Harley did not use rubber mounts they were hard frame mounted, this resulted in a lot of vibes being transmitted thru the frame and you could watch those handle bars dance.

A reason why they did was due to the engine - transmission configuration. It was U shaped and over time the drive case would begin to leak oil as the torque of the engine being transmitted from engine to tans would cause a spreading of the case, not much, but enough to cause a leak and for those that juiced their engines to the max and rode hard or raced you could easily developed cracks in the cases. On my FXDWG I was laying down 93 HP where the rubber met the road and when I built it out I added this little jewel to the other side of the engine when kept the engine from torquing the legs of its U.

Yes lots of things can be done but the Honda and Harley are at best an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[LOCKHART]

Ole cowboy, I think you will find the Harley v-twin is a 45 degree engine, not 60 degree.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Ole cowboy, I think you will find the Harley v-twin is a 45 degree engine, not 60 degree.

Thank you for that correction, I knew better but I was thinking about the Revolution Engine (water cooled) developed by Harley and Porsche, it's a 60 degree configuration! Not sure why that stuck in my head, I think it was the water cooling aspect I mentioned and its just got jumbled in my old brain...

 

[LOCKHART]

LOL! At my age, 72, that happens to me quite often!

 

[Ole Cowboy]

LOL! At my age, 72, that happens to me quite often!

I can IDENTIFY!

 

[LOCKHART]

Well, just read on Breitbart that Harleys C.E.O. says if Trump will back off the tariffs that Harley won't move to Thailand. Who does this azzhole think he's fooling? They were planning this TWO years ago, before Trump got in office! They have had a plant in Australia for that long, too. They play on that "made in America" bullshit, but they've had foreign made parts for a long time. They like tariffs when it benefits THEM, but whine & bitch when they don't. Pizz on Harley! Don't let the door hit you in your UN-American ass'es on the way out! Take your antique, way overpriced bikes with you, too!

 

[LOCKHART]

And if I was gonna buy a GOOD road bike that WILL go a 100,000 miles, easily, it would be a Honda Goldwing!

 

[LOCKHART]

The comments section on Breitbart were running 100% AGAINST Harley, too!

 

[Ole Cowboy]

My guess is: The old guard is gone, the new folks are counting beans, think about profits, profits, profits, growing and expanding. Anything to pump up their resume so the can leave after a few year selling what they did for Harley then can do for you.

They think all they gotta do is keep the V twin, keep it simple and keep it high profit. They are not Harley riders, they drive a lexus and MB's with dreams of a named parking spot at their next job making double the money and a Ferrari or Lambo sitting in that space with their name on it.

In short they don't understand their base of customers and how they think.

I remember I was out on my Harley one fine day for riding and stopped in some popular eatery to grab a bite. Place packed and I took a seat at the bar. Most folks in the 'happen' joint avoided me, I did not fit in, ragged torn jeans black boots, Harley sleeveless ragged jeans jacket with American Flag covering the back with HD written across it, Vietnam Veteran, 1st Cav, CIB and Tet '68 Survivor patches, 3 day growth of beard, fingerless gloves on and my Carbon Fiber German helmet.

Empty seat at bar I sit down and ask for a menu, girl next to me gets up and boyfriend gets up and lets her sit down in his seat leaving an open stool. 2 girls to my right get up and leave and as crowded as the place is I have 3 empty seats around me, LOL.

As I take a big bite of my burger 2 girls sit down in the empty seats to my right. I look and its Allison and Barb from work. I finish my last bite and turn and ask what they are up to today. I can tell they are slightly hesitant as they answer. We are making small talk when I ask Allison if she has traded in her car on a new one and I call her by name. She is startled and wide eyed then says how to you know my name? Well you and Barb work at XYZ in HR, they both are dropped jawed. I say, you don't know me do you? NO and NO! I smile and start telling them how they like their coffee at work with lots of cream and sugar. Then Barb says you are scaring me. I tell them who I am and they are shocked. Well you sure look different without the suit and tie. We all laugh and I head out, Allison asks if she can get a ride on my bike. I tell her sure, I am going to ride it to the company picnic next week.

Take Away: The Harley crowd be them the Chief Scientist for Nuclear Propulsion at NASA (known to his friends as Harley Charley) or some guy who is a tattoo artist is a different breed of folks and the Harley appeals to them. If HD loses and fails to understand who they are when they throw a leg over that bike then the company is doomed. Its more than knowing what your customer is buying, you need to know who the customer is. My guess the folks now running Harley would get up from there seat at the bar when I sat down.

 

[grasshopperglock]

I wear a German style helmet. It's not carbon fiber though. Mines kinda cheap and the strap sucks. Skull face rag for bugs and a switchblade knife in the pocket.

They say you meet the nicest people on a Honda. Yeah, Ok.


I'd be riding a Harley if they had a three or 4 cylinder inline motor you could rack to 15k rpm. With a transmission that didn't feel John Deere agricultural. I've shifted tractors. I don't want the same feeling on a motorcycle.

All they have to do is make a modern 4 cylinder monster with a sewing machine transmission and I'd be on a Harley. I know they can do it because you can pop the hood on a Ford and see over a billion dollars in research and development in a modular motor. Something so filthy American, you can smell it.

I want That in a motorcycle. Not a lumbering, low rpm V-twin. Maybe your right OC. Harley doesn't know what the customers want.


I need to find one of the chrome German helmets.