In what condition do you carry your 1911 in??

[oldag]

Does "in my range bag" count since my 1911 is too big to carry? I carry a Walther PPS.

Try a CCO or compact. These are my daily carry guns.

 

[diesel1959]

You are right I didn't realize that when I did it. But thanks, I can always count on someone having a English degree. I will fix it.

What, no grammar school?

 

[Landrover]

Nope not hear

 

[ZX9RCAM]

What didn't you hear?

 

[Landrover]

What didn't you hear?

I di'int go to grammer schol

 

[topduarte]

Condition 2 here

 

[benenglish]

OK, I'm going out on a limb here and saying something from memory. I don't have a link to back it up and in this internet age that's a cardinal sin, I know.

Col. Cooper generally only discussed conditions 1, 2, and 3. Others have since come along and added 0 and 4. I'm fairly confident of this and several online sources say the same thing.

However, back when he was writing, he actually did once define a Condition 4. It was for situations where you expect to have plenty of warning of coming trouble, don't need the weight of a firearm on the belt, and want to insure that undisciplined folks who might get ahold of your sidearm are not able to cause problems.

His idea of Condition 4 was to carry a loaded magazine on the person and leave the pistol on the mantelpiece or some other easily accessible spot. If you saw trouble coming, you went to the gun and loaded up. If at any other time the gun fell into the hands of curious children (obviously not your own well-trained spawn, of course), they couldn't hurt themselves.

Remember, this was back in the days before fingerprint-actuated electronic lockboxes existed, when Simplex locks were rare, costly, and no one put them on easy-access lockboxes intended for firearms, and no one had yet adapted the fingertip combination openers to lockboxes.

I believe (thought I'm not nearly as confident in my memory on this) that he also noted, in that same column, that carrying in this condition really made no good sense because if you had time to retrieve and load a pistol, you probably also had time to retrieve and load a rifle.

I can find no references online to his writing along these lines. However, I distinctly remember reading it ~40 years ago.

Of course, if I have this all wrong and someone can show me that it was another writer or that Cooper said something substantially different, I'll happily eat my crow in public.

 

[Landrover]

I have some of Col. Coppers books from back before him and Weaver started working together and sold the Government on modern technique. He talks about condition 0 and how some would drill and pin their grip safety. I will look for it and get back to you with the name of the book.

 

[benenglish]

...some would drill and pin their grip safety...

That mod was so common and accepted at one time that there were frame makers who entirely omitted the grip safety.

And if you've got sources for what you say about Cooper and Condition 0, I'd be very interested and appreciative. It would prove a minor error on my part (my main point is the definition that he gave to Condition 4) but would fly in the face of a number of articles that turn up high in search engine results.

 

[Landrover]

After him and Weaver started selling their new way of shooting to the government, Col Copper completely disowned instinctive shooting. Just before he was all for it.

 

[Landrover]

That mod was so common and accepted at one time that there were frame makers who entirely omitted the grip safety.

And if you've got sources for what you say about Cooper and Condition 0, I'd be very interested and appreciative. It would prove a minor error on my part (my main point is the definition that he gave to Condition 4) but would fly in the face of a number of articles that turn up high in search engine results.

Back in the gun fighting days of big cities. The cops and Feds were always getting into gun fights on the streets around every corner. They wanted to be faster then the bad guys when it came to drawing their guns and getting bullets on target first. When in hand to hand combat on the streets you might not be able to get a good grip on that 1911 to push that grip safty enough to get it off safe, that's why they pinned them. I would love to get a original that had that done to it.

 

[diesel1959]

When I'm done shooting I will put it in condition 1 until it's in holster then it's 0

That's nucking futs. But you already knew we were going to tell you that. Carry on.

 

[Landrover]

Yup. As long as the grip safety has not been squeezed, it's still safe

 

[stdavies]

I made a mistake, I fixed it. So for everyone who would like to know what the conditions of readiness for the 1911 are? They are the following.
The Conditions of Readiness

The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the “Condition” system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. They are:

• Condition 0 – A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
• Condition 1 – Also known as “cocked and locked,” means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
• Condition 2 – A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
• Condition 3 – The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
• Condition 4 – The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

The mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don’t understand the operation and safety features of the pistol.

Condition Two is problematic for several reasons, and is the source of more negligent discharges than the other conditions. When you rack the slide to chamber a round in the 1911, the hammer is cocked and the manual safety is off. There is no way to avoid this with the 1911 design. In order to lower the hammer, the trigger must be pulled and the hammer lowered slowly with the thumb onto the firing pin, the end of which is only a few millimeters away from the primer of a live round. Should the thumb slip, the hammer would drop and fire the gun. Not only would a round be launched in circumstances which would be at best embarrassing and possibly tragic, but also the thumb would be behind the slide as it cycled, resulting in serious injury to the hand. A second problem with this condition is that the true 1911A1 does not have a firing pin block and an impact on the hammer which is resting on the firing pin could conceivably cause the gun to go off, although actual instances of this are virtually nonexistent. Finally, in order to fire the gun, the hammer must be manually cocked, again with the thumb. In an emergency situation, this adds another opportunity for something to go wrong and slows the acquisition of the sight picture.

Condition Three adds a degree of “insurance” against an accidental discharge since there is no round in the chamber. To bring the gun into action from the holster, the pistol must be drawn and the slide racked as the pistol is brought to bear on the target. This draw is usually called “the Israeli draw” since it was taught by Israeli security and defense forces. Some of the real expert trainers can do an Israeli draw faster than most of us can do a simple draw, but for most of us, the Israeli draw adds a degree of complexity, an extra step, and an opening for mistakes in the process of getting the front sight onto the target.

Using the “half-cock” as a safety

The half-cock notch on the M1911 is really intended as a “fail-safe” and is not recommended as a safety. However, it has been used as a mode of carry. From Dale Ireland comes this interesting piece of service history from WWII:

When the hammer is pulled back just a few millimeters it “half cocks” and pulling the trigger will not fire the gun [on genuine mil-spec G.I. pistols]. I imagine this is an unsafe and not a recommended safety position. The reason I bring it up however is that it was a commonly used position especially by left-handers in WWII. My father carried his 1911 (not A1) to Eniwetok, Leyte, first wave at Luzon, the battle inside Intramuros, and until he was finally shot near Ipo dam. He tells me that he regularly used the half cocked safety position especially at night and patrolling because bringing the weapon to the full cocked position from the half cocked created much less noise and he was left handed so he couldn’t use the thumb safety effectively. He said using the half cocked position was all about noise reduction for lefties while maintaining a small amount of safety that could quickly be released.

Again, the half-cock is intended as a fail-safe in the event that the sear hooks were to fail, and it is not recommended as a mode of carry. It should also be noted that on guns with “Series 80” type hammers, the hammer will fall from half-cock when the trigger is pulled. This would include guns from Springfield Armory and modern production Colts. But, if you happen to be a south paw and find yourself in the jungle with a G.I. M1911A1 and surrounded by enemy troops, the half-cock might be an option.

For more detailed discussion of the safety and internal functions of the M1911, see “Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous?”

Now in condition 0 what was said about the safety is half true. There are 2 built in safeties in the 1911. Grip and thumb safety. When done shooting and you have a loaded gun, you put the weapon on safe before putting it back into the holster. Ounce in the holster you flick the thumb safety off. With out the back strap engaged the weapon will not fire. Now here is something to think about. Back in the days of cops and robbers, some use to pin their grip safety like Col. Copper and others to draw and get bullets on target faster. How it was explained to me was, sometimes if you are in a fight with someone ( hand to hand) you might not be able to get you hand to engage the back strap safety enough to take the weapon off safe.

When I do cocked and locked


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[Landrover]

That mod was so common and accepted at one time that there were frame makers who entirely omitted the grip safety.

And if you've got sources for what you say about Cooper and Condition 0, I'd be very interested and appreciative. It would prove a minor error on my part (my main point is the definition that he gave to Condition 4) but would fly in the face of a number of articles that turn up high in search engine results.

I believe it was in Col. Coppers book called , Complete book of modern hand gunning. I know back in the day a guy by the name Lt. Col. Phelps brought it up at a place called Sionics formerly known as Cobray.

 

[pharmaco]

I'd never carry Con. 0, since sweeping the safety off is a reflex for me. My thumb just does it without any input from the upstairs offices

 

[JustaPhule]

Condition 1. No thought required, muscle memory takes care of safety as pistol comes online.

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[Kar98]

I believe it was in Col. Coppers book called , Complete book of modern hand gunning.

New-fangled silliness. I still work by Ed McGivern's book "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting"!

 

[billpenn47]

as a non law enforcement person, I carried my 1911 in condition 2, in Vietnam. The holster had the flap cut off it, and a snap strap added. The Springfield XD-45, When I carry it, is in condition 3. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

 

[ArmsOverTexas]

Now before I start in on this, be advised there are 5 conditions to carry the 1911 condition 0,1,2,3 or 4. I'm not here to tell you how to carry yours, so don't tell me how to carry mine. Just wanted to see how people here in Texas carry theirs.

I carry my 1911 in condition 1, cocked and locked with one in the chamber.