Indiana school shooting

[AustinN4]

Also, recently heard about some girls that had either attempted or committed suicide partially based on a netflix shows called 13 reasons or something. What about the mostly Russian game called blue whale that may be linked to some 130 suicides?

What about them? As tragic as it is, that is not the problem we are discussing. At least they didn't take others with them, which seems to be the general pattern - girls mostly harm themselves but boys strike out at others.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I’ll be a little callous here. School shootings evoke an emotional response.

Anyone care that last year alone, 246 kids aged 16 and younger were shot in Chicago? Or that 38 of those died.

Or that this year, there’s been 68 kids shot and 8 killed in that same city.

I’m sorry, but I don’t see or hear the same outrage about that as I have seen for either Parkland, or Santa Fe.

What makes these two or three events more special?

 

[AustinN4]

What makes these two or three events more special?

People expect it in Chicago but not in their hometown.

 

[Big Dipper]

I’ll be a little callous here. School shootings evoke an emotional response.

Anyone care that last year alone, 246 kids aged 16 and younger were shot in Chicago? Or that 38 of those died.

Or that this year, there’s been 68 kids shot and 8 killed in that same city.

I’m sorry, but I don’t see or hear the same outrage about that as I have seen for either Parkland, or Santa Fe.

What makes these two or three events more special?

Kinda like a plane accident (even the one with only one unfortunate lady dying) getting way more coverage than the 17,000+ that die because of drunk driving each year (yeah, about 50 times the number that die from all types of rifles).

 

[Shady]

So you just hope a home invasion does not happen when young people are over. Or do you expect the invaders to wait for you to unlock your safe.

Well, I certainly hope that you don't have guns out if young people come over, surely you can see the sense in that.

There are laws about it.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

So you just hope a home invasion does not happen when young people are over. Or do you expect the invaders to wait for you to unlock your safe.

Why must your safe be unlocked to protect yourself?
Don't you have a carry gun?

 

[toddnjoyce]

There are laws about it.

Specifically, Texas Penal Code Section 46.13. The problem with that statute is it pertains to “readily dischargeable firearms”, as defined below:

(2) “Readily dischargeable firearm” means a firearm that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.

And states:

(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:

(1) failed to secure the firearm;  or

(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

The loophole is whether or not the weapon is readily dischargeable and, of course, enforcement.

 

[busykngt]

I’ll be a little callous here. School shootings evoke an emotional response.

What makes these two or three events more special?

To a large extent, you’ve answered your own question. School shootings do evoke a more emotional response.

And to be even more callous than your posting (which, it really wasn’t), the public is much less concerned when it’s gang members or street thugs shooting it out with one another. The only time I hear a Chicago shooting making the news, is when some “nine year old girl studying on her front porch was killed in a drive by shooting” or “a sleeping nine year old was shot through his bedroom wall”. And even those aren’t reported as often as they used to be.

We’ve grown accustomed to hearing such things out of Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc. Not so much out of Smalltown, USA.

 

[toddnjoyce]

...the public is much less concerned when it’s gang members or street thugs shooting it out with one another. ....

We’ve grown accustomed to hearing such things out of Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc. Not so much out of Smalltown, USA.

Here’s the callous part. We the people, media, and government are hypocrites (and quite probably racist) when we attach more value to one set of kids lives’ over another.

Most any loss of life sits somewhere along the continuum of tragic.

Being able to prevent future occurrences of tragedy has been a part of most of mankind’s existence. When we get to a point where any law eradicates criminal behavior, I’m pretty sure we will all be in heaven.

Until then, it’s either libertarian acceptance that criminal behavior will occur and result in tragedy or totalitarian control that will produce tragedy so long as one person exists that believes in freedom.

 

[easy rider]

I’ll be a little callous here. School shootings evoke an emotional response.

Anyone care that last year alone, 246 kids aged 16 and younger were shot in Chicago? Or that 38 of those died.

Or that this year, there’s been 68 kids shot and 8 killed in that same city.

I’m sorry, but I don’t see or hear the same outrage about that as I have seen for either Parkland, or Santa Fe.

What makes these two or three events more special?

That was Indiana's fault of course, Obama said so.

 

[Churchmouse]

One of my points is that for many, many decades (up to the 80's) kids had easy access to guns. Most folks did not lock them up. Teens (even early teens) had their own guns. Many kept them in their own bedroom. Some carried them in their vehicles. School shooting incidents were extremely rare for all that time. Access to guns is not a cause of these incidents.

So I cannot agree that the discussion should be around "access to guns". Really, that is just an extension of blaming the tool. By the time a kid is trying to get a gun, it is too late. The plan is being put into action. And if the kid can't get a gun? He will just drive a car through the parking lot when the bell rings. Probably kill and maim even more than with a rifle.

Nope, any discussion not around root causes will not achieve any improvement.

I agree that access is not the entire issue. It is the mind set.
When I was 12 we (cousins and I) were in the woods hunting dinner. They were at or around my age. We would roll down to the family farm to work on the weekend. My aunt would tell me to get the rifle and she would hand me some rounds. Not many. Maybe 6 or 8. If I did not have at least 3/4ths as many body's as rounds she was in my butt for playing around. I got to be a pretty serious marksman for my age.

I knew where the rifles were. I knew where the shells were. I knew well not to touch them unless directed to do so. There was no negotiating with the men in my family. None. You screw up you got your butt handed to you. You knew not to screw up. Period.

These young snow flakes back talk parents. Ignore parents. All with impunity.
Parents are either frightened at the consequences of punishing the little snow flakes or just do not care enough to exert the effort. I doubt seriously this will change for the better in my lifetime.

 

[oldag]

It’s been interesting for me to read this thread and to watch the news about Governor Greg Abbott’s three day symposium (and hoping he doesn’t do anything to infringe on our rights).

We’re all “gun people” here. And while there may be a general consensus as to how we got to this point (i.e., parenting issues, lack of moral direction, mental health issues, societal issues, etc., etc.), the question remains: how do we physically stop these attacks? And if successful in stopping “school” attacks, do the attackers simply turn to malls (or other locations where young people gather)?

Maybe the two questions can’t be separated? WHAT causes attacks and HOW to stop them.

Since it’s probably not realistic to think we can suddenly “fix” the parental / societal problems, I keep coming back to the idea of “hardening” the target (schools). Ever how you might define that; limiting access, metal detectors, arming teachers, increasing cops, etc.

But then, will malls need to do the same? Theaters? (Every place like a prison?). But how to put an end to this NOW? For as many different “motivations” as there are, is it even practical to think it can be ended? (Take Israel’s ongoing level of security as an example). Is it just our future?

We cannot physically stop the attacks. Someone bent on killing people will always find a way.

You are correct, we can't suddenly fix societal problems. But we better start working on it now if we ever expect this to get better. Otherwise, it will only grow worse.

 

[oldag]

Interesting.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...rs-there-are-only-three-reasons-here-are.html

 

[TxStetson]

Interesting.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...rs-there-are-only-three-reasons-here-are.html

Very interesting point. Definitely deserves a little thought.

 

[Churchmouse]

This link will take anyone interested to a local forum that folks directly effected are discussing. They had kids in the school or just close residents. This hits very close to home. There are a couple other threads in this forum on this as well.
https://www.ingunowners.com/forums/...situation-noblesville-west-middle-school.html

 

[Shady]

Your the one that said guns should be locked in safes and not out when young people are around.

Why must your safe be unlocked to protect yourself?
Don't you have a carry gun?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Your the one that said guns should be locked in safes and not out when young people are around.

Show me where I said guns should be locked in safes, I just stated that they should be put "up".
I probably said that safes should be locked, though.
You had made the comment that whenever you are home your safe is unlocked.

ETA: I probably have 5 guns out of my safe at all times.
Even when the grandkids are over.
But they are moved to higher ground until they leave.

 

[BillFairbanks]

Show me where I said guns should be locked in safes, I just stated that they should be put "up".
I probably said that safes should be locked, though.
You had made the comment that whenever you are home your safe is unlocked.

ETA: I probably have 5 guns out of my safe at all times.
Even when the grandkids are over.
But they are moved to higher ground until they leave.

My Mom’s cousin was a bounty hunter in Mississippi . When I was about 13 we visited him at his house. He had guns out all over the place. They were on the fridge, on the end table, on the kitchen counter. There was literally no place in his house that he was further than arm’s reach of a pistol. Of course I didn’t touch any of his guns, because I wasn’t an idiot.


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[easy rider]

My Mom’s cousin was a bounty hunter in Mississippi . When I was about 13 we visited him at his house. He had guns out all over the place. They were on the fridge, on the end table, on the kitchen counter. There was literally no place in his house that he was further than arm’s reach of a pistol. Of course I didn’t touch any of his guns, because I wasn’t an idiot.


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I believe that a much larger percentage of children in the past learned a much better sense of consequence for their actions. That seems to have lessened since the "spare the rod" movement began.

 

[jrbfishn]

That is a good part of it.

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