Is Perry really going to doany good activating the Guard?

[Younggun]

I'm not a fan of "Well, we HAVE to do SOMETHING".

No, you aren't a dirty libertarian, I realize that. My goal is to find solutions that don't give the gov unneeded power to be turned on us later. Your a conservative. Your goal involves long term risk and further expansion of gov so long as it suits you at the time.

That expansion ALWAYS comes back to bite us in the ass. The gov already has more than enough power and more than enough laws to fix the problem. You want to pass a law, think of one that removes the govs ability to pick and choose which illegal residents get to stay and which must go. Then try to find a way to get it enforced.

Why think of new laws that the Feds will ignore?

Hell, if you really want it to work, get immigration laws passed at the state level and get the state to flip the bird to the Feds when they say we can't enforce them. Better chance of that then getting the Feds to do anything with our current gaggle of political panderers in DC.

 

[Younggun]

Hang on a sec YG, I thought you were a Libertarian. Isn't the concept of interfering with commerce about as anti-Libertarian as one can get?

Nope. We are talking about a foreign nation sending goods to ours. Not the grocery store down the street selling you a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread, or a steel company selling material to an American manufacturer.

We have no obligation to support another nations economy.

 

[Sapper740]

Nope. We are talking about a foreign nation sending goods to ours. Not the grocery store down the street selling you a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread, or a steel company selling material to an American manufacturer.

We have no obligation to support another nations economy.

O.K. Let's shut down "foreign nation sending goods to ours". Are you prepared to spend $178.00 on a pair of Levis? The true cost of ?Made in the USA? Levi?s? $178 | GlobalPost
I don't think the average family with a median income of $51,000.00 Poverty rate 15%, median income $51,017 - Sep. 17, 2013 can afford that. Personally, I'd love to see only American made goods bought in a vibrant U.S. economy where everyone had a job but the truth of the matter is Unions and Liberals strive very hard to kill competition in this country by upping production costs due to wages and benefits. People vote with their dollars, that's why companies that work hard to bring the least expensive goods to their shelves flourish. The average American family can't afford to be Libertarian.

 

[Saltyag2010]

We should make it illegal to employ illegal immigrants. Problem solved.

It wouldn't be enforced. Money controls everything. If you take away the ability for these illegal immigrant workers to send money back through a perfectly easy and convenient and legal way they won't want to come here and work

 

[Younggun]

It wouldn't be enforced. Money controls everything. If you take away the ability for these illegal immigrant workers to send money back through a perfectly easy and convenient and legal way they won't want to come here and work

Read above posts.

It is already illegal, it was a sarcastic comment hi lighting the in effectiveness of passing new laws that, as you point out, will not be enforced.

 

[Younggun]

O.K. Let's shut down "foreign nation sending goods to ours". Are you prepared to spend $178.00 on a pair of Levis? The true cost of ?Made in the USA? Levi?s? $178 | GlobalPost
I don't think the average family with a median income of $51,000.00 Poverty rate 15%, median income $51,017 - Sep. 17, 2013 can afford that. Personally, I'd love to see only American made goods bought in a vibrant U.S. economy where everyone had a job but the truth of the matter is Unions and Liberals strive very hard to kill competition in this country by upping production costs due to wages and benefits. People vote with their dollars, that's why companies that work hard to bring the least expensive goods to their shelves flourish. The average American family can't afford to be Libertarian.

I don't recall advocating cutting trade with all foreign nations, nor did I say in any way, shape, or form that being a libertarian meant we MUST cut off trade with other nations.


You also forgot this sketchy little paragraph from your posted article.

"Though lacking strings of retail outlets and huge advertising budgets, little-known brands are quietly producing affordable US-made jeans. A pair of Gusset Jeans, made in Georgia, will cost you $55.95. A pair of Texas Jeans, made in North Carolina, goes for $29.99. Neither are shy about extolling their folksy, American bonafides. Texas Jeans even produces a “conceal and carry” line stitched to accomodate hidden pistols."


Already pay close to $30 for my Wranglers. But again, I never claimed we must cut off all trade, and the Levi's don't come from Mexico so it's a moot point.

 

[Sapper740]

I don't recall advocating cutting trade with all foreign nations, nor did I say in any way, shape, or form that being a libertarian meant we MUST cut off trade with other nations.

Thank you for clearing that up. So you're just for increasing tariffs on goods imported from Mexico, correct?

 

[breakingcontact]

I'm not a fan of "Well, we HAVE to do SOMETHING".

No, you aren't a dirty libertarian, I realize that. My goal is to find solutions that don't give the gov unneeded power to be turned on us later. Your a conservative. Your goal involves long term risk and further expansion of gov so long as it suits you at the time.

That expansion ALWAYS comes back to bite us in the ass. The gov already has more than enough power and more than enough laws to fix the problem. You want to pass a law, think of one that removes the govs ability to pick and choose which illegal residents get to stay and which must go. Then try to find a way to get it enforced.

Why think of new laws that the Feds will ignore?

Hell, if you really want it to work, get immigration laws passed at the state level and get the state to flip the bird to the Feds when they say we can't enforce them. Better chance of that then getting the Feds to do anything with our current gaggle of political panderers in DC.

Nope.

I said lets use the current laws and actually enforce them, repeal bad laws and if needed pass new laws.

 

[Sapper740]

Nope.

I said lets use the current laws and actually enforce them, repeal bad laws and if needed pass news laws.

Two points:

1) That's the solution.
2) Never gonna happen.

 

[breakingcontact]

Two points:

1) That's the solution.
2) Never gonna happen.

Then we need to start recalling elected officials.

I still contend we have too much democracy.

Perry ordering troops to our border? I hate all the complaining about Perry. He is doing something. Should he do more? Well, kind of sorta. In reality if the coalition of states called a country isnt doing its job in defending the borders...what exactly are they doing for us and why are we still paying for their lack of service?

If we all spent more time doing (voting, contributing, campaigning) and less time complaining we would be in vastly better shape.

 

[Younggun]

I mentioned it another thread, but I'll say it here too.


You want changes in government, work to effect changes in society. Put as much, if not more effort in to people as you do in to your voting, contributing, and campaigning. The government will never be able to force people to live the way you want them to and the harder it tries the more resistance there will be.

Work with people, talk with people, and show people what this country can be. That is how things change.

 

[breakingcontact]

I mentioned it another thread, but I'll say it here too.


You want changes in government, work to effect changes in society. Put as much, if not more effort in to people as you do in to your voting, contributing, and campaigning. The government will never be able to force people to live the way you want them to and the harder it tries the more resistance there will be.

Work with people, talk with people, and show people what this country can be. That is how things change.

I do a lot through my church and give weekly. That helps change my society. Im active in my neighborhood. That helps change my society. We have an awesome gun group growing in Austin. That helps change my society.

Here's the issue and why we need to vote, donate and campaign for good candidates: our current government is hostile to our culture, society, freedom and even life itself.

They are related and I am active in improving both spheres through my time, money and participation.

 

[breakingcontact]

Is Perry doing any good activating the guard? Yes.

 

[Saltyag2010]

Read above posts.

It is already illegal, it was a sarcastic comment hi lighting the in effectiveness of passing new laws that, as you point out, will not be enforced.

My whole idea is to stop the cause of all the problems. Illegals are exploiting us because they can and we've made it easy. Make it harder/illegal for illegals to transfer money because they shouldn't be here in the first place earning money. Create ridiculous penalties for banks or money transferring entities that allow illegal immigrants to send money out of the country.
After this is done- coming to exploit America won't be as attractive. That plus sending them back when we catch them will solve this.

 

[Sapper740]

Is Perry doing any good activating the guard? Yes.

^Agreed^

 

[Sapper740]

You want changes in government, work to effect changes in society. Put as much, if not more effort in to people as you do in to your voting, contributing, and campaigning.

I completely agree with this comment YG. The problem is, if TGT is any indication, "conservatives" are too busy slagging true Conservatives (with a capital C) to have any time to put into spreading the word.

 

[Younggun]

Not really.

Besides, after some ideas I've seen posted by "true Conservatives", I'm glad I'm not one.

I have plenty of time to spread my conservative values and libertarian filth side by side.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Hey. Libertarian. The Constitution says Congress can regulate commerce with foreign nations.

The Constitution isn't a purely libertarian system of government.

There's an easy way to ruin illegal immigration that will piss them off good. Since this problem has gone out of hand make it illegal to send money to Mexico and Latin America through banks or money orders from the US without a social security card and American ID/legal US document (work visa). most of the money the illegals make gets sent home. Cut this out and you kill a big part of Latin Americas economy and make it unjustifiable for illegals to come over.

Turn the banks and money order companies against them and they'll have to immigrate legally and end this problem.

And the same banks that have already been found guilty of crimes such as aiding in money laundering for the cartels are the best means of implementing this policy?

I'd be more worried about this sort of thing being used against citizens trying to get the hell out of dodge when this country collapses.

Anyways, isn't the real problem the families that are going to be a drain on our educational, medical, and welfare systems, as well as the criminals and our criminal justice system, not the people who are actually working and sending money back?

It seems that there has already been to many breakdowns in how the existing laws are enforced or how the border is secured before we start talking about banking and economic matters as possible solutions.

Don't know what libertarianism has to do with all this. It's not the problem.

 

[AustinN4]

From the articles ive read Houston is the promised land to them. Its a sanctuary city I take it?

List: Sanctuary Cities and States Protecting Illegal Aliens in the United States - Texas

 

[TheDan]

Hey. Libertarian. The Constitution says Congress can regulate commerce with foreign nations.

Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.

Interestingly, the Constitution doesn't say anything about immigration. It says Congress can make rules for naturalization (how people become citizens), but that's not the same as immigration. For a long time it was considered unconstitutional for Congress to regulate immigration. It wasn't until the progressive era that government got big enough for it's britches to try such a thing.

The only way to legislate this problem away is to repeal the welfare system. No new regulation is going to fix this.

Is Perry doing any good activating the guard? Yes.

What has been the benefit so far? Aside from the positive political posturing for Perry and Abbot.