Jack Booted Thug or justified?

[seeker_two]

Moral of the story: Warehouse property owners and night security guards don't matter when the LEO's start shooting. No one cares if they get bullet holes in their buildings or in their bodies.....just as long as someone gets to do a double-suplex kick at the end....

 

[Shorts]

If you think that's bad, you should see what drunks and burglars do to private property and get away with.

 

[peeps]

Great post.

Guys, let's stop fighting for criminals and start fighting against them. He was running from the law for a reason. Even if he was running for the law just for fun, he was wasting the resources that we pay for by having them chase his dumb ass. He is a criminal. Was the LEO wrong? Probably. Does the ends justify the means? Probably not. It's over and hopefully everyone learned from it.

I agree with you mostly. Except, we still have to confront questionable behavior by authority figures. Failure to keep things in check by the public leads to no where good and will do less to fulfill the last part of your post - learning from it.

 

[zincwarrior]

Guesss you guys didn't read where is still ok for DPS to shoot at runners

He was reprimanded fire kicking guy, not shooting guy

Center mass of bike is bigger targetthen center mass of guy

SHooting the tire out of a motorcycle though is effectively trying to kill him.

 

[Vaquero]

Unquestioned support is reserved for my savior, and my wife and children.

All others will be scrutinized. No exception.

 

[zincwarrior]

And That's the problem w society, motorcyclist caused the whole sit.

Thats not how its supposed to work. Trying to execute-and call it what it is- a fleeing suspect on a motorcycle is attempted murder. Absent the threat of life or serious injury thats not a legal thing anywhere else. There is an officer charged for doing just that recently.

 

[zincwarrior]

moral.
Don't run a stop sign.
We'll shoot you, then kick you.

Now thats a Tshirt slogan there.

 

[zincwarrior]

Great post.

Guys, let's stop fighting for criminals and start fighting against them. He was running from the law for a reason. Even if he was running for the law just for fun, he was wasting the resources that we pay for by having them chase his dumb ass. He is a criminal. Was the LEO wrong? Probably. Does the ends justify the means? Probably not. It's over and hopefully everyone learned from it.

Which one was the danger to society in this instance? Its this sort of thing that has caused me to move away from giving officers the "benefit of the doubt."

 

[Shorts]

SHooting the tire out of a motorcycle though is effectively trying to kill him.

So should we then take the tool out of our hands, the one that goes, "I just wanted him to stop"?

 

[zincwarrior]

So should we then take the tool out of our hands, the one that goes, "I just wanted him to stop"?

You should act the way the Law, the US Constitution, and the Texas Constitution says you should act. Mere police policy is just a policy. Thats irrelevant to whether its legal.

 

[RACER X]

SHooting the tire out of a motorcycle though is effectively trying to kill him.

Oh well

You think PITTing can't cause a death?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

Btw, I ride, sportbikes even

 

[Shorts]

You should act the way the Law, the US Constitution, and the Texas Constitution says you should act. Mere police policy is just a policy. Thats irrelevant to whether its legal.

P&Ps are based on the law. So, no, policy is not just "mere police policy".

 

[zincwarrior]

P&Ps are based on the law. So, no, policy is not just "mere police policy".

Based on the law is not the law.

You're losing the support of your people with this stuff. I've seen the hostility to the police and heavy handed tactics grow steadily over the last several years, and its accelerating. On an enlightened self interest basis, sitting back and saying "its policy" or whatever doesn't help YOU do your job, get pay raises, or be safer.

 

[zincwarrior]

Oh well

You think PITTing can't cause a death?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

Btw, I ride, sportbikes even

Don't know what PITTing is. I do know that shooting the tire out of a two wheeler at speed is trying to cause a major life threatening accident, not only for the bike, but anyone else around, including you.

If he were running you couldn't shoot him. Why do you think this is any better?

 

[Shorts]

Ahh...city council...now I see it

 

[RACER X]

Don't know what PITTing is. I do know that shooting the tire out of a two wheeler at speed is trying to cause a major life threatening accident, not only for the bike, but anyone else around, including you.

If he were running you couldn't shoot him. Why do you think this is any better?

I see it as trying to stop the veh. Dude dies. That's his own fault.

There's always personal responsibility, at least some people believe in that.

 

[Vaquero]

Ahh...city council...now I see it

.
?
Please explain.

 

[Charlie]

Same request.

 

[Blind Sniper]

OK, quick question. Wasn't it pointed out earlier in the thread that DPS official policy is to -not- use guns or stop-sticks to try and stop a motorcycle specifically because there's a pretty good chance of the rider getting hurt/killed? If true, then the officer in question should damn well face some punishment beyond a few days' suspension.

 

[Shorts]

Based on the law is not the law.

You're losing the support of your people with this stuff. I've seen the hostility to the police and heavy handed tactics grow steadily over the last several years, and its accelerating. On an enlightened self interest basis, sitting back and saying "its policy" or whatever doesn't help YOU do your job, get pay raises, or be safer.

You're quick to say law enforcement must follow the law, then in your next breath contradict by criticizing those who do believe in and follow the law.
Twist that around any which way you like to fit the narrative you want about the political climate. But those are the facts, laws are written, followed and enforced. When they're not, there are consequences.

Here's who does the laws in Texas:
Welcome to Texas Commission on Law Enforcement | Texas Commission on Law Enforcement
OCCUPATIONS CODE CHAPTER 1701. LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS
GOVERNMENT CODE CHAPTER 411. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS


All first responders and law enforcement who carry the duty, and subsequently, liability must remain under the umbrella of the SOPs/P&Ps based on the above laws. That's direct from the State of Texas to all employees. To step out from that is asking for trouble. The policies are there to protect everybody in the messiest of circumstances - responders and citizens. First responders are "trained to handle it". They're trained to live by those very black and white words and act under them. Because staying under those laws/policies/procedures/protocols is what will protect them. You saw that in this case with the Trooper.