Leaving gun in car at work

[txinvestigator]

Why give the guy such a hard time? To me it sounded as though stating that he wanted to "fully understand the rules" was more of a figure of speech than anything else. Right along the lines of the saying "play by the rules." Granted, it may not technically be grammatically correct to interchange rule with law or vice versa (or is it?) But by definition and in this case, it's fine, so why such a big deal...? His question was appropriate and the photo of the sign was a great idea so he and everyone else, now afraid to ask, will know as well.

Speaking of being anal about every detail, here's one:





Then the opposite...



So call it what you want, there's no need to give the guy such a hard time. Seems like he only posted the sign to explain why he was asking such a question about a law that seems pretty clear after being attacked. Can't play around with the rules in Texas...they'll get you into trouble!

I don't mean to be an ass but you guys need to loosen up a little

hey pot, meet kettle. Didn't ya notice the little "lol"? Good grief.

Despite your definitions, breaking law can get you put in jail or prison, breaking a rule won't.

 

[juwaba98]

Why give the guy such a hard time? To me it sounded as though stating that he wanted to "fully understand the rules" was more of a figure of speech than anything else. Right along the lines of the saying "play by the rules." Granted, it may not technically be grammatically correct to interchange rule with law or vice versa (or is it?) But by definition and in this case, it's fine, so why such a big deal...? His question was appropriate and the photo of the sign was a great idea so he and everyone else, now afraid to ask, will know as well.

Speaking of being anal about every detail, here's one:





Then the opposite...



So call it what you want, there's no need to give the guy such a hard time. Seems like he only posted the sign to explain why he was asking such a question about a law that seems pretty clear after being attacked. Can't play around with the rules in Texas...they'll get you into trouble!

I don't mean to be an ass but you guys need to loosen up a little

The reason it may appear that he is receiving a hard time (and I don't condone it if he is) is that the question has been asked and answered many times in this forum and even this thread. We (and by we I mean the members as a collective whole as I'm not a mod or admin) also have a thread stickied at the top of the forum that contains all the links necessary to find and read the laws for yourself so that you may gain a better understanding for yourself instead of relying on us folks out here in the world of the innanet. Google is also a wonderful resource available to anyone who has access to this forum since it's on the same innanet as we are.

If the question is coming from a CHL holder then this was covered in the class and if there were questions they could have been answered by the instructor. As CHL'ers we paid for the instructor to teach us.

Bottom line is if the time is taken to read the forum, search the internet, or even ask the CHL instructors (who most times will gladly answer questions outside of class even after you have completed it) the answer could've been found quite easily. It is indeed the responsibility of the person with the question to make sure they have the best understanding of the law possible as they are the ones who will have to answer for their actions not the guy "I talked to on the interwebs".

So without writing a novel, I am in no way discouraging participation in our forum. I also don't believe there are stupid questions, but sometimes there are questions that have been asked and answered many times like this one. To some members the questions get old, especially to the members who take the time to answer them over and over because they want to make sure you get the answer you need, but have done so multiple times.

OK, I'll shut up now and go over there ---------->

 

[arvetus]

Can't play around with the rules in Texas...they'll get you into trouble!

It's not hard to get into trouble in Texas. I intend to stay out of it. There's a reason why we are known for the slogan "Don't mess with Texas." But at the same time, I think I am entitled to privileges that I earn. If I earn the right to carry, I would like to exercise that privilege, but only if it is not breaking the law/rules/conduct code/whatever you want to call it.

I'm not afraid to look like a moron for asking a question. I do it every day.
To clear up any question, this sign is on the front door of a certain medical facility that I am employed at. There is nothing in the employee handbook regarding this subject, and there is no statute cited anywhere around this sign. Obviously, I can carry in my vehicle, many people do that and there are no signs posting against it. Some employee parking areas are sometimes occupied by questionable individuals that are not employees, and if I'm walking through the parking lot, and I have the right to carry, and it's not prohibited, I will carry. But then comes the question of whether or not I can come into the building carrying. There are certain individuals that I know that bring their items of protection in one way or another.

My thinking is, if it's not explicitly written in the law as being a felony as schools or places that earn more than half their income from alcohol are, and there is not a sign with the 30.06 verbiage or statute number prohibiting it, if you are licensed to carry, it is legal.

Unless medical facilities are included in the law of not allowing licensed individuals to carry on their premises.

GC s411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter
25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51
percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
28 GC @11.205. TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business
premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed
in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in
a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

I am not certain that my example I posted complies with this as written, does it?

**edit**
To answer juwaba...as his post came in ahead of mine, I am not new to guns, or handguns...been shooting them and hunting with them for as long as I can remember. I AM new to the CHL world. Never pursued it. I have NOT taken my class yet and I don't carry except on my own property and on my deer lease. My wife and I both will be taking a CHL class in February. In preparation for the class I have already read through a lot of these laws and statutes, even before finding this forum. I'm just trying to get clarification. There seems to be a lot of resources available, which I have read. But there also seems to be a lot of debate and discussion regarding a lot of these laws and rules, and a clear answer has yet to be determined, at least from my perspective.

 

[JKTex]

It's not hard to get into trouble in Texas. I intend to stay out of it. There's a reason why we are known for the slogan "Don't mess with Texas." But at the same time, I think I am entitled to privileges that I earn. If I earn the right to carry, I would like to exercise that privilege, but only if it is not breaking the law/rules/conduct code/whatever you want to call it.

I'm not afraid to look like a moron for asking a question. I do it every day.
To clear up any question, this sign is on the front door of a certain medical facility that I am employed at. There is nothing in the employee handbook regarding this subject, and there is no statute cited anywhere around this sign. Obviously, I can carry in my vehicle, many people do that and there are no signs posting against it. Some employee parking areas are sometimes occupied by questionable individuals that are not employees, and if I'm walking through the parking lot, and I have the right to carry, and it's not prohibited, I will carry. But then comes the question of whether or not I can come into the building carrying. There are certain individuals that I know that bring their items of protection in one way or another.

My thinking is, if it's not explicitly written in the law as being a felony as schools or places that earn more than half their income from alcohol are, and there is not a sign with the 30.06 verbiage or statute number prohibiting it, if you are licensed to carry, it is legal.

Unless medical facilities are included in the law of not allowing licensed individuals to carry on their premises.



I am not certain that my example I posted complies with this as written, does it?

You got a hard time because as stated, 2 times at least, this is all covered to death, including in this thread if you read any of it.

The bottom line, that sign you posted a picture of means nothing except that illegally carrying a gun inside that building is not legal; but of course illegally carrying a gun anywhere, is, well, not legal. I really hope that makes sense.

Your other examples are different. Schools, establishments that are 51% as determined by TABC are not in the same boat. But that's all covered several times and for me to try to paraphrase would not only take time, but I'd be re-writing the laws that you already have access too and again, are already discussed in several threads, including stickied threads several times.

Simple for now, you cannot carry in a school, or anywhere that a school finctions is taking place. You cannot carry in a place that the TABC has deemed a 51% establishment....The TABC determines that, not the establishment. The establishment is required to post the apporiate signs if they are. The big 51 as well as the TABC certificate on the wall; it's a different color. Church's and hospitals have to be 30.06 posted, although if you don't read the law all the way thorough, and pay attention to the details, it may appear they don't have to; they do.

Search as well as read the laws you can get in the booklet from the TDPS site that you may already have.

Do you have a CHL? If so, contact a lawyer and sue the CHL instructor you had.

If you don't have a CHL, all this changes and that sign you posted a picture off, applies to you.

 

[JKTex]

**edit**
To answer juwaba...as his post came in ahead of mine, I am not new to guns, or handguns...been shooting them and hunting with them for as long as I can remember. I AM new to the CHL world. Never pursued it. I have NOT taken my class yet and I don't carry except on my own property and on my deer lease. My wife and I both will be taking a CHL class in February. In preparation for the class I have already read through a lot of these laws and statutes, even before finding this forum. I'm just trying to get clarification. There seems to be a lot of resources available, which I have read. But there also seems to be a lot of debate and discussion regarding a lot of these laws and rules, and a clear answer has yet to be determined, at least from my perspective.

Ok, that changes everything......... This is what you'll cover in the CHL class.

There are no "rules" by the way. Laws are laws.

Clear answers are there, but not for someone jumping into the middle without learning the laws or at least getting a summary/briefing as you will in the CHL class. But you have access to the manual you will get.

Now you know why your questions are getting you such a hard time. The laws are very different for one that does not have a CHL. You're questions are coming from your perspective with it that of someone that has not gone through the class or reviewed the laws.

But kudos to you for trying to get a head start.

If you look at the top of this forum there are several threads stickied that discuss and summerize some of the laws. In the first one, there is a link to the TDPS site.

Here's a direct link to the page with links to the booklet and the booklet with 2007 changes:
Texas Department of Public Safety - Courtesy, Service, Protection

 

[arvetus]

I hereby consider my question answered.

Also, keep in mind...with every forum, the longer the forum exists, the more information there is to comb through. There are some forums I've been a member of since it first was started. Even with these forums that I've been a member of for 5+ years, and having seen a majority of the posts, since the database has grown, it gets hard to comb through everything.

Perhaps someday I will be able to have combed through more here and become a contributor rather than an annoying newb asking questions that have been answered 1000 times over. Happens in every forum I've seen, which is why I don't join many.

 

[txinvestigator]

.
GC s411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter
25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51
percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
28 GC @11.205. TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business
premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed
in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in
a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Just a point of clarification. That section of the Government Code is a requirement for the hospitals, nursing homes and TABC licensees. It has nothing to do with where a CHL holder can carry, and holds no law for CHL holders.

Prior to the 30.06 law hospitals and nursing homes were off limits under the penal code, even without signage. That GC section was put in place to be sure CHLers had notice anyway. When the 30.06 law was introduced and hospitals and nursing homes became off limits only if 30.06 is posted, that GC section was left over. Since it is meaningless for hosiptals and nursing homes that part of GC411.204 should be removed.

I can see where it would cause confusion

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

Just a point of clarification. That section of the Government Code is a requirement for the hospitals, nursing homes and TABC licensees. It has nothing to do with where a CHL holder can carry, and holds no law for CHL holders.

Prior to the 30.06 law hospitals and nursing homes were off limits under the penal code, even without signage. That GC section was put in place to be sure CHLers had notice anyway. When the 30.06 law was introduced and hospitals and nursing homes became off limits only if 30.06 is posted, that GC section was left over. Since it is meaningless for hosiptals and nursing homes that part of GC411.204 should be removed.

I can see where it would cause confusion

The statute was simply appended with a statement excepting 4 preceding paragraphs. This is something I always cover in my class. In fact, I make the students read this section during the lunch break and ask questions on it when they get back. I always have a nice gift if they answer it correctly, and NO ONE has ever gotten the prize. The statute is terribly written.

My earlier comment was just a *sigh*. I wasn't giving the guy a hard time as much as I was expressing my disappointment that someone, presumably a CHL holder, is asking this question again. This is a topic covered ad nauseam in these forums, and SHOULD have been covered extensively by your CHL instructor.

And to the gentleman (or lady, don't remember) who felt like he/she might have asked a stupid question: Please, don't let comments in these forums dissuade you from asking questions. Comments are usually more a reaction to the failure of an instructor to get a particular concept across than a commentary on your intelligence.

 

[Rbrt]

Ummmmm .... may I ask a question on another topic? I took the CWP course recently, and I guess I'll finally get it. In the meantime, as before, I intend to keep my Glock 19 concealed in my car but locked, loaded, and in easy reach. I read that many of the police dept.'s are briefing their officers to ask routinely in a stop, whether there's a gun in the car. I also read that you don't have to disclose such.

How, then, should I treat that question if ever asked? I don't like lying to an officer, but then I SURE don't like being harrassed, and it seems to me that you're just shooting yourself in the foot (bad place for this joke) if you don't answer this question even though the law says that you don't have to. What? Answer no? Do they then have to get a warrant if they suspect such? And is there any penalty for concealing information that you had a specific right to conceal (i.e., here, lying)?

 

[biglucky]

Wow this threadzilla is confusing as hell....

I have more questions after reading it then I had going in. Thanks.

 

[arvetus]

I have more questions after reading it then I had going in. Thanks.

I am glad that I am not the only one...

 

[JKTex]

Ummmmm .... may I ask a question on another topic? I took the CWP course recently, and I guess I'll finally get it. In the meantime, as before, I intend to keep my Glock 19 concealed in my car but locked, loaded, and in easy reach. I read that many of the police dept.'s are briefing their officers to ask routinely in a stop, whether there's a gun in the car. I also read that you don't have to disclose such.

How, then, should I treat that question if ever asked? I don't like lying to an officer, but then I SURE don't like being harrassed, and it seems to me that you're just shooting yourself in the foot (bad place for this joke) if you don't answer this question even though the law says that you don't have to. What? Answer no? Do they then have to get a warrant if they suspect such? And is there any penalty for concealing information that you had a specific right to conceal (i.e., here, lying)?

Wow this threadzilla is confusing as hell....

I have more questions after reading it then I had going in. Thanks.

I am glad that I am not the only one...

That reply above is a perfect example of why a simple question become so confusing and leaves those like you guys who actually read through the thread, dazed and confused.

I don't know what to tell you, there are ridiculous replies that make this a mess that it shouldn't be.

 

[JKTex]

Ummmmm .... may I ask a question on another topic? I took the CWP course recently, and I guess I'll finally get it. In the meantime, as before, I intend to keep my Glock 19 concealed in my car but locked, loaded, and in easy reach. I read that many of the police dept.'s are briefing their officers to ask routinely in a stop, whether there's a gun in the car. I also read that you don't have to disclose such.

How, then, should I treat that question if ever asked? I don't like lying to an officer, but then I SURE don't like being harrassed, and it seems to me that you're just shooting yourself in the foot (bad place for this joke) if you don't answer this question even though the law says that you don't have to. What? Answer no? Do they then have to get a warrant if they suspect such? And is there any penalty for concealing information that you had a specific right to conceal (i.e., here, lying)?

You actually asked this in public?

I'll answer and you tell me if it's the right answer or not. If you can't tell......good luck.

Yes, lie to a direct question from a LEO. Then explain to him/her that it's your right to lie to LE when they find cause to search your car and find it. Just be sure that you are not hiding anything and are a completely legit law abiding citizen before you lie to a LEO. The rest of the stop will go really smooth...

So yes, there are local, state and federal laws that give you the right to lie to LE. You're good.



Now, because I'm worried that you'll think that really IS the right answer, I'll add, you never lie to LE. The is no law that gives you that right. If asked, answer truthfully. Assuming there is no prohibiting factor, a right you DO have, is the right to have the gun out of plain sight in your car.

Now go read the law for yourself and stop assuming.

 

[Rbrt]

MAN!!



Just wondered if there was any settled way to exercise that right and not create more problems than it's worth ...

Nope! Should have known.

 

[Jeff]

I always lie to the police. Especially if there's a gun in my car. In this case lying is always the best policy.


















Yes, I'm joking. I haven't been pulled around in probably five or more years and have my CHL so I'd never lie about my weapon nor anything else. I believe the last, and one of only few times I've been stopped, was for speeding. I had turned onto a major road from a side street, unknowingly passing up the only school zone sign. So while I was going the speed limit, I had no way of knowing I had turned into a 30mph school zone. I explained to the officer that I was going 45mph (the speed limit) and never would've sped had I known I was in a school zone.

He already had his ticket book out but let me go after my explanation. He had no radar on me as he actually left another stop he was on to pursue me. (Motorcycle cop.) I'm pretty sure he let me go as I told him the truth and accepted the fact that I was technically "speeding" but never passed the school zone sign. I admitted to speeding thru the 30+mph school zone, though going the regular speed limit, but also with the fact that I had already passed up the sign by turning onto the main road from the side street.

 

[txinvestigator]

Ummmmm .... may I ask a question on another topic? I took the CWP course recently, and I guess I'll finally get it. In the meantime, as before, I intend to keep my Glock 19 concealed in my car but locked, loaded, and in easy reach. I read that many of the police dept.'s are briefing their officers to ask routinely in a stop, whether there's a gun in the car. I also read that you don't have to disclose such.

How, then, should I treat that question if ever asked? I don't like lying to an officer, but then I SURE don't like being harrassed, and it seems to me that you're just shooting yourself in the foot (bad place for this joke) if you don't answer this question even though the law says that you don't have to. What? Answer no? Do they then have to get a warrant if they suspect such? And is there any penalty for concealing information that you had a specific right to conceal (i.e., here, lying)?

RIght now, today, if you have a CHL and a Peace Officer or Magistrate demands that you ID yourself, you must also show your CHL and DL or State issued ID. It is not arrestable to NOT display, but your CHL can be suspended. If you fail to display your CHL after once being suspended for it, you can be arrested.

A person without a CHL is under no such obligation. It is not illegal to lie to a Texas Peace Officer about whether there are guns in the car or not. A Peace Officer does not need a warrant or even Probable Cause to search for weapons.

I imagine that if you lie, the officers decides to check and finds the weapon he would then take any and all enforcement action possible. Since it is not illegal, generally, to have a handgun in your car without a CHL, advising an officer when you do have one could not harm you.

 

[txinvestigator]

Wow this threadzilla is confusing as hell....

I have more questions after reading it then I had going in. Thanks.

Pardon the pun, but shoot.

 

[biglucky]

Well I think they are mainly what has been "debated" over and over in this thread....

1. Does 30.06 apply to premises (meaning the buildings and structures) or property (meaning parking lot)?
2. What I have been told by both a CHL instructor and an attorney is that if my employer by policy takes away my right to carry my legally concealed firearm and have it locked in my vehicle while in the companies premises (buildings and structures) by not allowing them on company property (which they are allowed to do unfortunately, and my employer does do this) my employer is then 100% liable for my safety in the event that anything happen that I could have reasonably stopped by having my legally concealed firearm in my possession?

There are more, but those are the most pressing..... I hate the fact that we even have to discuss this as the right to bear arms and protect yourself should be inherent and not subject to licensing or any other outside interference, but that is the society we find ourselves in...

 

[SC-Texas]

No, it denies you a TOOL of self defense.

It denies you the most effective tool for self defense.

 

[Rbrt]

RIght now, today, if you have a CHL and a Peace Officer or Magistrate demands that you ID yourself, you must also show your CHL and DL or State issued ID. It is not arrestable to NOT display, but your CHL can be suspended. If you fail to display your CHL after once being suspended for it, you can be arrested.

A person without a CHL is under no such obligation. It is not illegal to lie to a Texas Peace Officer about whether there are guns in the car or not. A Peace Officer does not need a warrant or even Probable Cause to search for weapons.

I imagine that if you lie, the officers decides to check and finds the weapon he would then take any and all enforcement action possible. Since it is not illegal, generally, to have a handgun in your car without a CHL, advising an officer when you do have one could not harm you.

That about their not needing a warrant to search for weapons is new info., also confirming that I have no duty to disclose, as I suspected. Thanks for your info.and helpful attitude.
In the period since the carry-in-car-without-permit law was passed, I've been carrying. I HAVE been stopped maybe 3 times, never for speeding; never ticketed. And they've never asked.