Open Carry at Church

[zincwarrior]

Or maybe we have glass doors and the walls all around the glass doors are glass and there are no signs anywhere at this point and we dont want to have to install metal signs or a two layer decal to get the contrasting colors
It's our choice and at this point we are electing to go this route
If we get 15-20 people OCing a week we may post signs

We have glass doors as well with etchings representing certain saints. A 30.07 sign aint gonna deface that.

 

[zincwarrior]

Some folks don't like concealed carry. Some don't like guns. But if the law says it is ok to open carry the same places that you used to conceal carry then that is pretty simple. It is your right to do as you wish.

Its also their right to kick you to the curb.

 

[Whistler]

Haters gonna hate, peace and tolerance. You are uninvited from my bar-b-que with all your religiousity and stuff.

 

[zincwarrior]

Haters gonna hate, peace and tolerance. You are uninvited from my bar-b-que with all your religiousity and stuff.

Indeed. We should be discussing which church serves more booze at parties. Now THATS a worthy discussion.

You know what they say about Anglicans, for every four, you'll find a Fifth.

 

[XinTX]

However even in proper churches they may ban open carry not in an effort to not offend anyone's delicate sensibilities but in order not to place any hindrance between a non believer and the gospel.

And that is the essence of Paul's writings on the "weaker brother". He basically proclaims the gospel that we're all free. But out of respect for others we shouldn't be "in your face" about it. Paul uses the illustration of meat sacrificed to idols, but the underlying principle is the same. We willingly refrain from exercising certain freedoms so as not to put up a hindrance to others hearing the gospel. It's like saying "just because you can doesn't mean you should." But if OC becomes a non-issue, I can see them taking the signs down. The leadership of our church has shown that they are willing to change if it's called for and the right thing to do.

 

[Whistler]

Ninja edit

I was gearing up for the "liberty versus license" debate

 

[vmax]

We have glass doors as well with etchings representing certain saints. A 30.07 sign aint gonna deface that.

And that is YOUR choice and that's fine with me

 

[zincwarrior]

And that is YOUR choice and that's fine with me

Indeed.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

And that is the essence of Paul's writings on the "weaker brother". He basically proclaims the gospel that we're all free. But out of respect for others we shouldn't be "in your face" about it. Paul uses the illustration of meat sacrificed to idols, but the underlying principle is the same. We willingly refrain from exercising certain freedoms so as not to put up a hindrance to others hearing the gospel. It's like saying "just because you can doesn't mean you should." But if OC becomes a non-issue, I can see them taking the signs down. The leadership of our church has shown that they are willing to change if it's called for and the right thing to do.

I'll just respectfully disagree. Following your logic, you could have the slippery slope of banning anything that is seen as a hindrance. Paul's passage is talking about sin. There isn't anywhere Biblically that could lead to misconstruing carrying weapons as sinful. Impolite or odd maybe, but not sinful. I think Biblically speaking, and I believe the Corinthians passage illustrates this, refraining from certain "freedoms" only has to do with particular behaviors that had could be misconstrued as sinful (under Jewish law) because of a improper understanding of the "spirit of the law" and the nature of the new found moral freedom under Christ. I think the biggest example in the history of Christendom is drinking, even Christ himself was a victim of this, because drinking too much is an obvious sin, but mild to moderate consumption is alright, but scripturally it is unclear where this line is drawn. The other is eating certain foods, either in contrast with Jewish dietary restrictions or food that is sacrificed to idols. In 1Corinthians 8, the supposed sin is idolatry, but Paul explains simply that the idols have no power, it is all make believe. In Romans 14:22-23 basically says that you are condemned if you doubt your behavior because you are not acting in faith that what you are doing is right, so therefore you are committing a sin.

Sounds like some of you are doubting whether it is sinful or not to OC or even carry a weapon at all.

 

[vmax]

We view it as an unneeded possible distraction during the services
Just like a cell phone going off or a screaming baby for 30 min

If a person comes to learn about the Lord and gets sidetracked because some guy in front of him has a shoulder holstered 1911 with the muzzle point straight at his chest he won't be able to concentrate on what he came in there to do

Conceal all of the guns you want ,lots of us do every Sunday

It appears to me that some of the same people who absolutely HATE the OCT tactics and bad mouthed those demonstrations are now being like them in a way by condeming private property owners from banning OC but not CC

Most of us fought hard to get OC
It seems now that we have it we don't know what to do with it

I recall during the legislation battle a lot of you saying OC was good to have but you would still prefer to CC

some of you same people are now condeming other gun supporters for supporting that position

Some of you people amaze me

 

[JohnnyLoco]

We view it as an unneeded possible distraction during the services
Just like a cell phone going off or a screaming baby for 30 min

If a person comes to learn about the Lord and gets sidetracked because some guy in front of him has a shoulder holstered 1911 with the muzzle point straight at his chest he won't be able to concentrate on what he came in there to do

Fair enough. I do understand the point, I just also see where naysayers like TXI could have a point, rather I would just prefer not to give him the ammunition (pardon the pun). I do disagree with it on a scriptural level and I would have hoped that the members of your church were consulted first, I mean the people who you all depend on every Sunday to give at the collection plate, before this decision was made. Hopefully it was not made in a rash manner by the head pastor and a few of the buddy buddy church elders who believe they know better than everyone else. I don't know if you guys are nondenominational, a part of a larger organization, I would imagine that might have played a role too. I would just be careful about how you throw around the term "property rights" when talking about a church. You are just a steward of what God has given you, and you pay no taxes either.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

A proper church based on sola scriptura, sola fide, and sola gratia is a family of believers. The church is for the believers not the world. The gospel is offensive to the world. The people are to go out from the church body and evangelize the world.

This is to be remembered.

 

[vmax]

Fair enough. I do understand the point, I just also see where naysayers like TXI could have a point, rather I would just prefer not to give him the ammunition (pardon the pun). I do disagree with it on a scriptural level and I would have hoped that the members of your church were consulted first, I mean the people who you all depend on every Sunday to give at the collection plate, before this decision was made. Hopefully it was not made in a rash manner by the head pastor and a few of the buddy buddy church elders who believe they know better than everyone else. I don't know if you guys are nondenominational, a part of a larger organization, I would imagine that might have played a role too. I would just be careful about how you throw around the term "property rights" when talking about a church. You are just a steward of what God has given you, and you pay no taxes either.

Our Church property rights reside with the members under the leadership of the pastor and elders who are elected by the members

We discuss the important things and the church has great unity
On the other hand we are not the type that votes on where we buy toilet paper

The main focus is spreading the Gospel, loving God, loving people and serving both

 

[breakingcontact]

Our Church property rights reside with the members under the leadership of the pastor and elders who are elected by the members

We discuss the important things and the church has great unity
On the other hand we are not the type that votes on where we buy toilet paper

The main focus is spreading the Gospel, loving God, loving people and serving both

This is discussing ecclesiastical polity. There are different ways churches are structured which show where the temporal power lies in the church.

Some structures are more democratic than others.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

This is discussing ecclesiastical polity. There are different ways churches are structured which show where the temporal power lies in the church.

Some structures are more democratic than others.

From what it sounds like, I doubt this decision when down democratically.

 

[breakingcontact]

From what it sounds like, I doubt this decision when down democratically.

I'm fine with that.

 

[Willy]

I think OC will be a distraction to what church is about. I have no problem with OC, but I will continue to CC. I'm curious how my church will handle it. I guess I should ask somebody.

 

[JoeN]

My church has a couple of uniformed offices at each of our services and at the service I attend there is usually a constable attending and he OCs so the membership is not unaccustomed to seeing someone OC. However, so far all OC has been by officers. We will see tomorrow if anyone else shows up open carrying. Personally I would never OC at church. Regardless of what you think or how you want things to be, guns are now and always will be an emotional issue. I don't want to do anything that might cause someone at church to focus on me rather than on the worship service so I will not OC. You may think that is their problem and not yours but I choose to not push the issue and I will not OC at church. It is personal and something I feel strongly about. However, if others choose to OC it won't bother me though it might others.

Although now it is legal for me to OC it will be rare for me to OC. I don't want the world to know that I am carrying and at this point the only holsters I own are CC. I have shopped around for an OWB holster but have yet to find anything I like. I will eventually buy an OWB holster but when I wear it I will probably be wearing a jacket or vest. I don't know what my church will do but I have a feeling anyone that OCs will likely be approached by one of the officers and I would not be surprised if they were asked to either conceal or remove the weapon. Again we will see tomorrow morning.

 

[bandook]

Please explain your reason for not posting but not allowing OC. I dont understand the reasoning behind not posting the sign.

The law provides for EITHER a written or verbal notification.

They have chosen the latter and I don't think they owe anybody an explanation.

 

[epwrangler]

I think all the handwringing is a nervous reaction that will disipate just like the "blood running in the street" stories dod about CC. OC will be no big deal to most. But the nervous Nellies need to get a grip.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk