Open Carry at Church

[zincwarrior]

not according to the ones here who say church should be no different than the mall or any other business

Well some churches have coffee bars. Mine, we're just winos. Everyone gets free wine, even the kiddoes!

I'm just surprised. It was impressed upon us by the PoPo (who recommended the CHLs) that concealed means concealed and loose lips sink ships. Even her parents aren't aware, intentionally because her mom is not good at keeping things to herself...

 

[epwrangler]

I keep thinking if the woman who was acting as an armed guard at her church who shoot and killed an attacker but being the only one armed the killer shot many before she could het to him and end it. More guns would have been a help and could have saved lives.

 

[Mreed911]

I keep thinking if the woman who was acting as an armed guard at her church who shoot and killed an attacker but being the only one armed the killer shot many before she could het to him and end it. More guns would have been a help and could have saved lives.

What are you talking about?

 

[zincwarrior]

I think he's saying if more were CHLing maybe the BG could have been stopped earlier.

 

[Mreed911]

I think he's saying if more were CHLing maybe the BG could have been stopped earlier.

Hypothetical or real?

 

[zincwarrior]

Hypothetical or real?

I think the very nature of the point is hypothetical. If there were more CHlers, he's arguing, hypothetically there may have been a higher chance that the BG would have been intercepted earlier.

IIRC the event noted was actually on a campus for missionaries in training-with multiple buildings. Unfortunately there have been several events so I could be thinking of a different one.

 

[vmax]

guys I think he was referring to an actual event. He said "the woman"
it just makes me think he is talking about something he saw on the news

 

[majormadmax]

Jeanne Assam

 

[Mreed911]

Jeanne Assam

As-salamu alaykum to you to, sir!

 

[majormadmax]

Guard saved untold lives, officials say

COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO. — The gunshots were so loud that Jeanne Assam thought the shooter was already in the building.

A former police officer, Assam, 42, was on security duty Sunday morning at New Life Church here. Hours earlier, a 24-year-old who had been rejected from a missionary school in a Denver suburb had shot and killed two staffers there. Now he was spraying New Life's parking lot with gunfire and pushing through the doors to the sanctuary.

Assam hid and inched toward the gunman, Matthew Murray, as dozens of terrified worshipers fled. She waited until he got close enough, revealed herself, aimed her pistol and fired. Murray dropped to the ground. He was carrying an assault rifle, two pistols and a backpack holding more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

"I just prayed to the Holy Spirit to guide me," Assam said at a packed news conference Monday. "I give the credit to God. This has got to be God, because of the firepower he had versus what I have."

Authorities on Monday said Assam saved untold lives as they described how Murray, the home-schooled son of a prominent neurologist, terrorized two religious facilities during a harrowing 12-hour rampage...

(Click on title link for full article)

 

[epwrangler]

That is the one I was thinking about.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I don't see a problem with open carrying at church. Plain and simple, I think people are just going to have to get over it and everything will be fine. Just on a practical note, I think OC goes more with dress clothing anyway, unless you are wearing a suit jacket. Sure there are little mouse guns you can conceal, but I'm of the opinion that churches are bigger targets than most other places, I would want to carry a service-sized pistol.

Christ knew that he and his disciples were targets so he commanded them to carry swords. He did not tell them to carry and conceal small little daggers.

I know there are differences of opinions on this, and that is fine. Some churches I can imagine will frown on this. Luckily we have the freedom to choose our house of worship and the fellowship we keep. So, I'm sure there are many churches who will welcome open carriers with open arms.

 

[Tony2]

I don't see a problem with open carrying at church. Plain and simple, I think people are just going to have to get over it and everything will be fine. Just on a practical note, I think OC goes more with dress clothing anyway, unless you are wearing a suit jacket. Sure there are little mouse guns you can conceal, but I'm of the opinion that churches are bigger targets than most other places, I would want to carry a service-sized pistol.

Christ knew that he and his disciples were targets so he commanded them to carry swords. He did not tell them to carry and conceal small little daggers.

I know there are differences of opinions on this, and that is fine. Some churches I can imagine will frown on this. Luckily we have the freedom to choose our house of worship and the fellowship we keep. So, I'm sure there are many churches who will welcome open carriers with open arms.

I m thinking maybe this should be decided by the people that go to church

 

[JohnnyLoco]

You should do what makes you happy but don't blame it on the Lord. What you're talking about (all your examples) are social conventions and specifically your perception of those conventions. YOU think "sanctuary" should be quiet and solemn, YOU think they should conceal, YOU think dressing in drag at a funeral in poor taste. Whether I agree with you or not isn't the issue. TXI thinks it's in poor taste to OC anywhere and while I don't necessarily agree with him it's hypocritical, you think OC is fine some places and not in others, I was just pointing out these are YOUR feelings, those are his feelings and neither one of them have anything to do with what's "respectful", "distracting" or even right or wrong.

My take on it is if my behavior is not directly, physically and measurably imposing on you beyond your "feelings" then what I do isn't really much of your business. Ultimately you are letting YOUR feelings create rules to judge and control someone else's behavior in much the same manner as anti-gun folks do and either you recognize that as well or you are being hypocritical. Like the often quoted old saw "just because you can doesn't mean you should" is, in my opinion, authoritarian bullshit and simply another way of saying "I don't like that". I say it on here frequently, freedom is messy and the hardest part is letting the other guy have his.

Great post. This piece of scripture I think goes along with some of your thoughts, 1Corinthians 8:

12And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble. (1Corinthians 8:12-13 NASB)

The whole chapter is about trying not to offend other Christians, even if their being offended is completely unfounded and not based in reality. Even Christ walked this thin line when he drank wine (they called him a drunk) and ate with sinners.

I think you have to take care, but I don't see anywhere in scripture where it even implies that bearing weapons is immoral, sinful, or evil. The Corinthians passage is about eating food sacrificed to idols, and Paul basically says that we know it is okay because those are false idols, but at least you can see how a new Christian might be offended by this because it borders on the obvious sin of idolatry.

It is hypocritical of Christians to say that they believe open carry is sinful, but concealed carry is not. If it is a sin to carry a weapon, I don't think God cares whether it is concealed or not because he sees all things. I happen to not believe that carrying a weapon is sinful, so I can't logically say that it matters whether it is open or not.

It is the duty of the pastors and elders to discuss this and for the pastor to address it to the members of the church. If there are fears of "causing fellow believers to stumble" by open carrying, yet you believe that this puts you and your family's safety, as well as the safety of the whole flock, at risk, then this must be brought into the open and older folk must understand that this is not sinful and completely safe.

 

[XinTX]

Last Sunday I noticed that my church has already posted 30.07 signs. I don't personally agree with it, but I understand their motive for doing so. The church isn't anti-carry. Most of the pastors and staff have CHL's. So while I disagree, I do accept their decision to do so. I wouldn't have OC'd there anyway, and will continue to CC.

 

[Charlie]

Last Sunday I noticed that my church has already posted 30.07 signs. I don't personally agree with it, but I understand their motive for doing so. The church isn't anti-carry. Most of the pastors and staff have CHL's. So while I disagree, I do accept their decision to do so. I wouldn't have OC'd there anyway, and will continue to CC.

I'm not big into OC and will probably do it very rarely. But how can one say a "group" isn't anti-carry when they've put up a sign saying you can't carry? I'm not sure I understand. Maybe they have good motives, I just don't quite understand what those motives are.

 

[zincwarrior]

I m thinking maybe this should be decided by the people that go to church

indeed.

As a note, with a suit jacket I conceal an M&P. What are you looking to carry, a bazooka?

 

[XinTX]

I'm not big into OC and will probably do it very rarely. But how can one say a "group" isn't anti-carry when they've put up a sign saying you can't carry? I'm not sure I understand. Maybe they have good motives, I just don't quite understand what those motives are.

They promote the idea that it is a place where anyone can come and feel comfortable and welcome. They felt some might not feel comfortable with people displaying arms during the service. They don't want the distraction from the message. Had they been anti carry they would have posted 30.06. We just understand that the purpose is to focus on the message and not do anything that causes others to be distracted and miss the message. The entire argument of the "weaker brother" that Paul makes.

 

[Whistler]

How do they feel about spiky red mohawks? Those make me uncomfortable and are certainly distracting. <sarcasm>

IMHO someone's feelings (especially irrational) aren't anyone's problem but their own. My sidearm (hat, mohawk, whatever) distracts/scares you but somehow that's my problem not yours? I choose to carry or wear boots with mis-matched socks, you choose to be fearful and offended and we all carry on. It's disturbing to witness folks advocating secretive behavior simply because some folks have been convinced they "don't like it" or pretend to be afraid. Worse they want to make rules to enforce their feelings and how they "feel" others might feel. It's disrespectful to God, children, moms and old people for me to carry an inanimate object (~40% of the population) but homosexuals/transgender/transsexual/pick_your_perversion (~5% of the population) are okay. Except property rights I just don't get it but if it matters you can carry any way you want at my place, spiky red mohawks are not permitted, they scare the chickens.

Do what you want to do, as for me I've belabored the point long enough.

Mind your own biscuits and life will be gravy

 

[JohnnyLoco]

They promote the idea that it is a place where anyone can come and feel comfortable and welcome. They felt some might not feel comfortable with people displaying arms during the service. They don't want the distraction from the message. Had they been anti carry they would have posted 30.06. We just understand that the purpose is to focus on the message and not do anything that causes others to be distracted and miss the message. The entire argument of the "weaker brother" that Paul makes.

I would say they are not making it a place that is comfortable or welcome to those who wish to open carry. Rather than respect the law and scripture, these churches are taking it upon themselves to be the arbiters of appropriate Christian behavior. This is disgusting. While at the same time many churches will have no problem with adulterers or fornicators in their midst. Or they'll water down their "message" and preach this feel good, happy smiley Christianity.

My point of bringing up 1Corithians and the "weaker brother" was that it shouldn't apply to anything and everything that people might offended by. Old biddies, ninnies, gossipers, and false Christians have used this for years to try to manipulate, shame and persecute good Christians for almost anything and everything, from having a drink, to dancing. This mentality is a pariah and it has ruined the church experience for many a non believer and believer as well.

Just saying that's a church I will not frequent.