Shooting fees at a Private Club

[K80RT]

Not sure if your club has thought about this but the ranges might need Lead abatement one day

We have and just had an analysis done. Not due for a while.

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[toddnjoyce]

You got some quote syntax errors there. What I keep hearing is there are factions. As a board member, you have to do what’s in the best interest of the c3 as a whole, not what’s in the best interest of some of the members.

 

[K80RT]

That is what I am trying to do. Five years ago members were spending money and submitting to the treasurer for payment with no approval. We were in terrible shape. We had no reserve. No new skeet machines(6 fields). No 5-stand. No roof over the pistol range. No new kitchen. No lights on the trap and or the nonexistant at the time 5 stand. No new rifle range building. No new hvac in the clubhouse. Fast forward 5 years later we have all those things with no debt and $40k in reserve and around $17K in just cash and shooting at $3/rd and no increase in dues. My mentor is 100% responsible for that turnaround. I am having a hard time seeing where we have a revenue problem. My problem is convincing the spenders we have things under control. They see the $3/rd as leaving money on the table. I see it as adding value to our club membership. We are a nonprofit.

 

[Axxe55]

I'm sorry, then what is the problem?

More members? More income? Better facilities?

 

[K80RT]

That is our argument. It is like talking to a wall. They cannot get by we are cheaper than other clubs. Sure we have some work to do. Like new bathroom facilities, clubhouse renovation and expansion(or new building). Jumping in at this time when a new building starting now has no real known finished cost and I personally think we need half paid for in advance(at least
).I was a salesman by trade. I come at them by every angle and I cannot sell them.

 

[Axxe55]

That is our argument. It is like talking to a wall. They cannot get by we are cheaper than other clubs. Sure we have some work to do. Like new bathroom facilities, clubhouse renovation and expansion(or new building). Jumping in at this time when a new building starting now has no real known finished cost and I personally think we need half paid for in advance(at least
).I was a salesman by trade. I come at them by every angle and I cannot sell them.

Stop trying to sell it to them. If you are the president, run the club in the best interests of the club, and stop sweating the details.

 

[K80RT]

Being President is not all powerful. All it takes is a motion, a second, and a vote and it could be $6/rd. BTW I forgot a few items in that 5 years, a $36k metal building that ended up costing $63K for American Legion kids to shoot BB guns, a $12K electronic entrance gate that has been hit by lightening 2xs and needed $1400 in repairs.

 

[toddnjoyce]

That is what I am trying to do...

Part of your problem is members should not be obligating/spending c3 funds. All funds should only be obligated by an officer of the c3 (board member). One way to help with this is for the board to create a fiscal committee that serves as paying agents.

 

[Axxe55]

Being President is not all powerful. All it takes is a motion, a second, and a vote and it could be $6/rd. BTW I forgot a few items in that 5 years, a $36k metal building that ended up costing $63K for American Legion kids to shoot BB guns, a $12K electronic entrance gate that has been hit by lightening 2xs and needed $1400 in repairs.

Let them! When revenue and memberships drop because of the higher fees, then you can say, "I tried to warn you."

I see it this way, if you are being restricted or impeded in running the range in a manner that will make it better, maybe you should decline in being president and walk away. Not much fun in having to fight to keep it running smoothly and in the black if members are fighting against you.

 

[K80RT]

The board with a quorum has to approval all spending now. I was a member but not active in the running of the club back when anyone could spend. Not sure how they stayed afloat. I have heard stories of theft accusations over the years. We are over 80 years old now.

 

[K80RT]

Let them! When revenue and memberships drop because of the higher fees, then you can say, "I tried to warn you."

I see it this way, if you are being restricted or impeded in running the range in a manner that will make it better, maybe you should decline in being president and walk away. Not much fun in having to fight to keep it running smoothly and in the black if members are fighting against you.

It has run thru my mind to quit, but I made a commitment. I love shooting with my friends and do not want to let them down either. I posted this here to get other perspectives and bounce things off of the forum not only to validate my thinking, but to hone my skills against counters. The early members of this club made some very wise decisions or the mismanagement of the more recent past would have doomed us. Please if you see hole in my argument hit me with it. I know my opposition certainly will. If I sounded offended or offended anyone in my responses to you I apologize. I am getting emails, phone calls, and texts often on the subject and forget with whom I am responding. Old age I guess! Thanks!!

 

[Axxe55]

It has run thru my mind to quit, but I made a commitment. I love shooting with my friends and do not want to let them down either. I posted this here to get other perspectives and bounce things off of the forum not only to validate my thinking, but to hone my skills against counters. The early members of this club made some very wise decisions or the mismanagement of the more recent past would have doomed us. Please if you see hole in my argument hit me with it. I know my opposition certainly will. If I sounded offended or offended anyone in my responses to you I apologize. I am getting emails, phone calls, and texts often on the subject and forget with whom I am responding. Old age I guess! Thanks!!

I understand. It sounds like your mentor did a decent job of running the club. If you plan on running it as president, just do it how he would have. Explain to the board and members of what your goals are for the club, and it's legacy for years to come, and go from there.

 

[lightflyer1]

Maybe they are wanting to get rid of some of the members by increasing fees to the point those not well heeled can't participate anymore.

 

[toddnjoyce]

It has run thru my mind to quit, but I made a commitment. …

If it matters, no offense taken, been there done that (and still doing it). If you just need a place to vent, that’s fine. This place has a strong face-to-face component to it. We have semi-annual reunions and many of our users consider each other close friends, if not family.

In your role, you should not be doing it all, that’s what a board and committees are for. Once you have a critical mass to serve, leadership has to step back and become much more business-like in structure and management to ensure the c3 remains aligned to it’s charter. If not, you can lose that status and the IRS comes a calling.

 

[K80RT]

You are correct sir. Venting here helps. I am trying maintain a neutral mind. That is not allowing emotions and self talk in. Sure works in shooting. Keeping a neutral mind does not mean one does not have a position though.

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[Wiliamr]

I figure from your location numbers you are in New York, if not clarify where you are. Depending on your state and or county, there are requirements for the organization. Does your club have a state charter? Does the club have By-Laws or a constitution? Those would be your guide, the By-Laws should address the question of who is a Board member, who can spend funds, reimbursement for expenditures either emergency or planned. Also the bylaws should address how fees and membership dues are set.

Since your club has paid employees you all have to comply with state and federal employment laws, FICA, Medicare, IRS withholding, also possibly unemployment, does your state require employees be offered health insurance? Does your state or county have income taxs or other statutory witholding and wage reporting requirements? What about property taxes, taxes on business property? What about insurance for liabilty, damage via natural and manmade vectors, as well as any environmental (OSHA, EPA, USF&G and any equivalent state or county entities) Those are the base issues to set cost vs income ratio. Then you get into various ways to set fees.

A lot to consider, but stuff most all general club members never consider. Those issues alone will set the rank and file into "crossed eyes" state.

 

[K80RT]

Been contemplating what I might say(if needed at the next membership meeting). I am sure they will have some prominent business people get up and state if a product in their business increases they have to raise prices. I think I will start out pointing to what membership means in our club. You are a stockholder in an entity with well over $2 million dollars in land assets alone and $50K plus in CREP and farm revenue with absolutely no debt.
I will tell them I believe some have lost sight of the only product this club has. I will then say that the only "product" our club sells is membership. With membership comes benefits and privileges on top of equity. Clay targets while generating revenue is a benefit not a product. While cost of targets has risen .125/round, I would propose getting rid of a round free for every 12 purchased which would increase the price 200% of the cost increase(or .25). It is incumbent on club leadership to provide any benefit at lowest possible cost(if any) to the membership. I will point to clubs near us that have increased shooting prices to $4 or $5/round. These clubs at one time held registered shoots now they do not have the volunteers to put on a shoot. We had to step in a few years ago to have the state championships because one of those clubs could not muster the volunteers. We have a very strong volunteer group in large part because they know leadership has their back on shooting costs and they are recognized for their efforts. A minimum of $16K was raised last year alone to the general fund by events manned by these volunteers. Several of these same volunteers are the ones who also are large donors to the club.
I will also say club house operating hours(which generates the wages) is also a benefit to all the membership not just clay target shooters. While the amount the club is open is open for debate, all costs associated with the operating hours should go against dues(unless the membership thinks the club house should only be open to clay target shooters).

Let's hear what you think....

 

[K80RT]

I figure from your location numbers you are in New York, if not clarify where you are. Depending on your state and or county, there are requirements for the organization. Does your club have a state charter? Does the club have By-Laws or a constitution? Those would be your guide, the By-Laws should address the question of who is a Board member, who can spend funds, reimbursement for expenditures either emergency or planned. Also the bylaws should address how fees and membership dues are set.

Since your club has paid employees you all have to comply with state and federal employment laws, FICA, Medicare, IRS withholding, also possibly unemployment, does your state require employees be offered health insurance? Does your state or county have income taxs or other statutory witholding and wage reporting requirements? What about property taxes, taxes on business property? What about insurance for liabilty, damage via natural and manmade vectors, as well as any environmental (OSHA, EPA, USF&G and any equivalent state or county entities) Those are the base issues to set cost vs income ratio. Then you get into various ways to set fees.

A lot to consider, but stuff most all general club members never consider. Those issues alone will set the rank and file into "crossed eyes" state.

We comply with all regs. We have ByLaws. They are not that specific into finances other than all spending must be board approved ot it is a donation. All taxes, insurance, fees, graft, and bribes are paid and we owe no one. We are not far from our 100th birthday. Where we are shall remain untold.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…Let's hear what you think....

Are you (the board) asking for the membership’s permission to do the board’s job or are you telling the membership what the boards has done to ensure survivability of the c3?

I would not bring up asset values as detractors are going to use that as ammunition against you. I also don’t believe in inmates running the asylum. The membership voted for you to be on the board and you to lead the board precisely so they don’t have to deal with running the c3. If somebody has a problem with a board decision, they can run and get elected and change stuff however they want. Until then, they can STFU or go somewhere else.

 

[K80RT]

Are you (the board) asking for the membership’s permission to do the board’s job or are you telling the membership what the boards has done to ensure survivability of the c3?

I would not bring up asset values as detractors are going to use that as ammunition against you. I also don’t believe in inmates running the asylum. The membership voted for you to be on the board and you to lead the board precisely so they don’t have to deal with running the c3. If somebody has a problem with a board decision, they can run and get elected and change stuff however they want. Until then, they can STFU or go somewhere else.

Anicipating a motion to increase shooting fees. Will be voting on a $20 due increase for next year at the next membership meeting. The vote will rile the troops. Our board is not all powerfull. We are a motion, a second, and a vote from anything.

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