The "Gun Safes Are Not Safes & Not Worth It" Argument

[pronstar]

A home alarm should prove helpful in giving a burglar minimal time to spend mucking with a safe/cabinet before the cops come.

Hopefully they'll look for easier targets...


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[Texasjack]

Worked with a guy years ago that built his own safe at home. Sheets of thick steel welded together, inside of a room, with a massive door that he bought. Filled the bottom with concrete. Someone figured it must contain something pretty valuable, so they backed a tow truck up to the back of his house, knocked holes in the walls and ran a chain around the whole safe, then jerked it out of the house and down the street, where they managed to load it on a flatbed and haul it off, never to be seen again. In the middle of the day.

The Egyptians built elaborate tombs, nearly all of which were robbed in antiquity.

Safes do not stop burglars. They only slow them down. Same is true with the locks on your doors or the burglar bars you put on windows or even a burglar alarm. If someone really wants to steal your stuff, they will. All you can do is slow them down and make it hard enough that maybe somebody notices and stops them or gets enough info that the cops track them down.

 

[benenglish]

Aligns with what this guy says:
http://gunsafereviewsguy.com

I don't know whether to thank or curse you for that link. There's great info there but I could lose many, many hours trying to digest it all.

After some thought, I've decided "Thank you" is the appropriate response.

 

[45tex]

20 years ago my then girlfriend snooped in my closet. A few days later a safe was delivered as a gift. I have had to move it myself twice since then. I feel better owning a strong stupidly heavy safe for guns and other stuff I want to keep. If you steal it, you can have it. You get a few guns and my new in the box Ferbie for your troubles. And records I probably don't need. But still I sleep better owning it.. Wait, it just dawned on me I have fewer guns since I got married. This aint right.

 

[Dawico]

Speaking of the fire protection issue, my buddy had a standard Cannon (or insert your favorite sub $1000 safe, don't recall exact brand) and his house completely burned down around it. We had to cut it open to get his things out. No fire damage at all to anything inside.

I am not saying the fire was welding temperatures or anything but an uninsulated cabinet would not have allowed his paperwork or boxes of ammo to survive.

Something is better than nothing.

 

[ed308]

I've worked a lot of house fires over the years. Usually the contents of the safe is toast just like everything else if a major fire and the house totaled. It usually depends where the safe was located and it there was a lot stuff for the fire to burn in that area. But if that happens the guns are usually covered at full value since the peril that caused the damaged was a fire.

Having a safe and alarm is wise. But consider a separate insurance policy for your firearms since most homeowners and renters insurance policies limit theft of firearms losses from $1,000 to $2,500. Check the Special Limits of Liability on your policy to see what the limit is. I've purchases various policies through the years from either NRA or Collectibles. I recently paid $138 for $15,000 in coverage. Review the policies carefully since even those policies will have special limits and exclusions that may limit or exclude theft of a firearm from an unlocked car.

 

[AustinN4]

I've worked a lot of house fires over the years. Usually the contents of the safe is toast just like everything else if a major fire and the house totaled. It usually depends where the safe was located and it there was a lot stuff for the fire to burn in that area. But if that happens the guns are usually covered at full value since the peril that caused the damaged was a fire.

Having a safe and alarm is wise. But consider a separate insurance policy for your firearms since most homeowners and renters insurance policies limit theft of firearms losses from $1,000 to $2,500. Check the Special Limits of Liability on your policy to see what the limit is. I've purchases various policies through the years from either NRA or Collectibles. I recently paid $138 for $15,000 in coverage. Review the policies carefully since even those policies will have special limits and exclusions that may limit or exclude theft of a firearm from an unlocked car.

I dropped the firearms rider on my homeowners as I discovered it was subject to my deductable, which is 10% of my coverage amount. I had it for theft reasons, but they would not have been covered except in a total fire loss. It wasn't worth the extra annual premium to me.

 

[karlac]

Mine does its basic job by securing my firearms from visitors, friends and family.
Anything else will be considered a happy bonus ...

 

[sucker76]

When I read "gun cabinet" I immediately thought of The wooden with glass door gun cabinet that was in the house when I grew up. Reading responses, I take it "gun cabinet" to this majority is a thin sheet steel locking box from big box store. In any case they both only keep honest people honest. The glass door models show off your beautiful guns. "Safe" to me equals "vault". Combination type locks, heavy as hell, heavy steel, fire protection and bolted to the floor/wall. Me getting a real safe/vault was honestly wife driven. Once looking into what to get, I realized the importance of fire protection. I now have a very fire secure Liberty safe that can still be broken into by a highly determined and well equipped robber. Doing it for the kids, I think, is a tad lazy for gun owning parents. I grew up and was taught gun safety and my daughter is growing up learning gun safety. Even if parents don't own or like guns, they owe it to their kids to give them a little bit of knowledge on gun safety. I can rationalize my safe also protects those ignorant kids that come over with my daughter.

OP I may have just opened up a big can of worms...

 

[benenglish]

OP I may have just opened up a big can of worms...

Not at all. You have a completely valid point of view, well reasoned and well presented.

 

[Brains]

Doing it for the kids, I think, is a tad lazy for gun owning parents..

I have a 3 year old boy who is full of curiosity, high on intuition, but short on deductive reasoning. That means, in a nutshell, that he has the chops to get into stuff but not the forethought to determine whether or not it can kill him. There is no amount of training at this age that would prevent him from picking up a gun and figuring out how it works.

So my choices are either to leave the guns accessible and follow him around every waking moment, including taking him with me to the can, to the shower, ensuring I'm awake every moment he is, etc. Or I can lock up my guns in the safe. So call me a lazy parent all you want, but I'll do what's best for me and mine.

 

[grumper]

There's this concept called Defense in Depth. Layer many counter measures together, so while no single one may prevent a burglary combined they may be a big enough pain in the butt to discourage the bad guy or mitigate the loss somewhat.

So ideally buy safes, several of them or build a vault, have an alarm system, a guard badger with rabies, security webcams w motion sensors linked to your phone, insurance, etc...

Or fuggit and get a sheet metal box to throw all your guns in and hire a shady foreigner to stand guard. If you subscribe to the hillary clinton model of security.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Speaking of the fire protection issue, my buddy had a standard Cannon (or insert your favorite sub $1000 safe, don't recall exact brand) and his house completely burned down around it. We had to cut it open to get his things out. No fire damage at all to anything inside.

I am not saying the fire was welding temperatures or anything but an uninsulated cabinet would not have allowed his paperwork or boxes of ammo to survive.

Something is better than nothing.

For the best bet in keeping fire damage down, locate your safe against an outside wall. If located closer to the center of your house, then there is just that much more "fuel" around it to get it hotter...



ETA: I just read that the next post touched on this.

 

[oldag]

Never had a corrosion problem in my safe. And I do not use goldenrods or such.

Nothing will stop a determined and adequately equipped thief. But I doubt many thieves will come carrying a good enough cutting wheel to get through my safe in any reasonable amount of time.

And with everything in it (including some ammo for weight), no one is going to move it from its current location. {I know what it took to get it there empty.}

If a house burns down, doubtful anything will survive the heat regardless of the container (not impossible, though, as observed above).

A smash and grab thief will go away empty handed.

 

[lonestardiver]

Ditto on located next to an exterior wall regarding fire related heat/damage. Regarding layered security, the heck with a rabid badger. Get a couple of geese or a peacock. The entire neighborhood will know when someone is in your yard. THey will then have to fend off the critter long before they get to the house.

 

[IXLR8]

Any fixed defense can be defeated. The best defense may be obscurity. If you do not have any apparent value, there will be far less effort employed to defeat it. Portray great value, and the reward for greater effort may appear worthwhile. Some folks just enjoy a challenge

 

[pronstar]

At the end of the day, a genuine UL-rated safe (often marketed as a commercial safe) is too costly, unwieldy and heavy for most of us to even consider having in our homes.

So the best we can hope for is a tough-as-we-can-afford "gun safe"

 

[ed308]

That my thoughts. I've got a $1500 safe since that's what I could afford. It's light enough that I can move myself if needed. I have peace of mind to not worry that a visiting child gets hurt in my home and on my watch. And with my homeowners policy and my Collectiables policy, I'm cover for any losses that occur to my firearms.

 

[TheDan]

I'm sure we'd all want a real safe if money was no object, but in reality it matters a lot. Maybe if a mysterious uncle leaves me a bunch of money I'll buy one. Better yet, he could leave me his safe

As for the safe like objects and cabinets; some are certainly better than others, and expensive doesn't always mean better. Generally the thicker the steal and insulation, the better. A well constructed DIY cabinet made from thick plate could potentially be more secure than a $2000 safe like object.

 

[karlac]

Doing it for the kids, I think, is a tad lazy for gun owning parents.

Your kids have friends.
Not all their friends had the same responsible parenting.
Sooner or later one of those will end up in your house.
One word in today's litigious society ... "liability".
Protect yourself ...