The "Gun Safes Are Not Safes & Not Worth It" Argument

[Jack Ryan]

Given these points, they feel that until you're spending $7K+ on a safe, you're just wasting money on something that isn't actually a safe, doesn't provide reliable fire protection, and promotes rust.

That's what I'd say if I was selling something that cost $7K or $100.

What ever it is, bolt it to the floor so it's have to move. Put is someplace that's hard to work on, show off, or get to. If it's out in the middle of the living room floor, you open the door and disco lights come on and/or it chimes "TA DA!" None of all that stuff in the article is probably going to matter.

 

[sucker76]

I have a 3 year old boy who is full of curiosity, high on intuition, but short on deductive reasoning. That means, in a nutshell, that he has the chops to get into stuff but not the forethought to determine whether or not it can kill him. There is no amount of training at this age that would prevent him from picking up a gun and figuring out how it works.

So my choices are either to leave the guns accessible and follow him around every waking moment, including taking him with me to the can, to the shower, ensuring I'm awake every moment he is, etc. Or I can lock up my guns in the safe. So call me a lazy parent all you want, but I'll do what's best for me and mine.

It was a harsh statement but I needed to say it.
You have a great point about young kids. Mine is 13 and its easy for me to forget what she was like 10 years ago. You need to protect your very young kids from themselves.

Quote:
Your kids have friends.
Not all their friends had the same responsible parenting.
Sooner or later one of those will end up in your house.
One word in today's litigious society ... "liability".
Protect yourself ...

This next comment is aimed at older kids:
I do understand liability in today's sue happy environment. As I stated in my post, I believe ALL parents owe it to their kids to teach basic rules about firearms even if it is only "Don't go near it!". I also talk to the parents to get an understanding of the child's upbringing.

 

[LoneStarChar]

I had an elcheapo cabinet until I could afford the real deal, now I use it to store surplus ammo and gun stuff I probably really don't need, but can't bring myself to part with

 

[pronstar]

IMHO if you have kids, a typical 4-digit code electronic lock ain't gonna cut it.

That's just 9,999 possible combinations, and a kid with the will and hours of time on his hands day-in, day-out, is gonna try them all until he gets it right. I know I would have.

Just something to consider...


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[diesel1959]

I have a 3 year old boy who is full of curiosity, high on intuition, but short on deductive reasoning. That means, in a nutshell, that he has the chops to get into stuff but not the forethought to determine whether or not it can kill him. There is no amount of training at this age that would prevent him from picking up a gun and figuring out how it works.

So my choices are either to leave the guns accessible and follow him around every waking moment, including taking him with me to the can, to the shower, ensuring I'm awake every moment he is, etc. Or I can lock up my guns in the safe. So call me a lazy parent all you want, but I'll do what's best for me and mine.

Discipline works. Try some. It can even conquer curiosity, intuition, and deductive reasoning. And such abilities can be channeled productively as a reward for good behavior.

 

[diesel1959]

IMHO if you have kids, a typical 4-digit code electronic lock ain't gonna cut it.

That's just 9,999 possible combinations, and a kid with the will and hours of time on his hands day-in, day-out, is gonna try them all until he gets it right. I know I would have.

Just something to consider...


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6 digit electronic is moar betterer in that regard.

 

[txinvestigator]

The large safe in the corner of the living room makes a lasting impression on the potential suitors attempting to court my daughters...it starts with that "Oh shit" face.

I am the father of a 21 year old daughter who had many suitors. They don't care about your guns and are not afraid of the them.

 

[txinvestigator]

Agreed. And bolt it to the floor. Safes are stolen alot.

"A lot"? What does that mean? In what percentage of the 1,130,941 residential burglaries reported by the FBI in 2015 were gun safes stolen?

 

[txinvestigator]

All depends on what your major concern is. If it's to keep children from your guns a locking cabinet will probably suffice. If it's to discourage your average thief, most thefts are the get in and grab what you can and get out type, then a strong metal locking cabinet or cheaper safe would probably suffice. If you have a very nice house, usually the type of house which many criminals will stake out, and you and/or family are gone a lot, then a much more expensive safe may be what you need. Of course with most of them if they are bolted down, the better. Basically the more time and resources a thief has, the more protection you need.

Personally I would worry more about having good insurance than the best safe out there.

Good points. One must evaluate the risk. Who is the average burglar? What is his MO? How much time is the teen crackhead likely to spend trying to force open something that is locked up? What is the risk that a person will be targeted by a criminal with the knowledge that the person has guns, willing to take the time and effort to then try to enter the safe?

How much do you have invested in the contents of the safe? Do you have proper layers of security?

 

[txinvestigator]

There are deals from time to time for safes that offer reasonable fire protection and safety. Check out Harbor Freight and Tractor Supply, both offer a lot better prices than you find an gun shows/gun shops.

Did you read the OP? Non-UL rated "safes" have no officially rated fire protection. The rating claims are made by the manufacturer.

 

[txinvestigator]

Discipline works. Try some. It can even conquer curiosity, intuition, and deductive reasoning. And such abilities can be channeled productively as a reward for good behavior.

I am unclear on what you are suggesting? Are you saying that "discipline" is enough that one does not need to secure firearms from underage persons?

 

[diesel1959]

I am unclear on what you are suggesting? Are you saying that "discipline" is enough that one does not need to secure firearms from underage persons?

Hell no. Secure the shit out of them. But demystify things for kids--make time to teach them about things they are curious about and also take the time to impress upon them that their curiosity does not excuse them going behind their parents' back on things. I know he said his child was three, and I'm obviously not referring to three-year-olds, but by a certain age, even young children can "get it" that there are certain things that are untouchable. Period.

In our home growing up, it was my parents' bedroom. That was their sanctum sanctorum. We were NEVER allowed in that room without being first asked. Period. Non-negotiable, whether they were home or not. You better damn well believe I followed the rules.

 

[sucker76]

Hell no. Secure the shit out of them. But demystify things for kids--make time to teach them about things they are curious about and also take the time to impress upon them that their curiosity does not excuse them going behind their parents' back on things. I know he said his child was three, and I'm obviously not referring to three-year-olds, but by a certain age, even young children can "get it" that there are certain things that are untouchable. Period.

In our home growing up, it was my parents' bedroom. That was their sanctum sanctorum. We were NEVER allowed in that room without being first asked. Period. Non-negotiable, whether they were home or not. You better damn well believe I followed the rules.

This, in part, was what I was trying to relay. I lived all my childhood with the family glass door gun cabinet in the living room. The key was on top in easy reach. I darn sure knew not to go near them without dad. I was no doubt curious so he taught me from a very early age to respect firearms and taught me the basic rules early too like a firearm is always loaded unless verified and never point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy, etc.

Discipline goes a long way with kids (this may lead me to a rant on what I think is wrong with kids these days!). The very young will be more difficult because they are curious and haven't had the time to be taught.

Everyone needs to measure risk vs reward on what type of safe you get. I got a Fat Boy Jr Liberty safe. It was to make my wife happy at first and later realized the benefits of having a fire rated safe. It was largest safe with the best fire rating I could afford at the time. It's full now......

 

[ed308]

"A lot"? What does that mean? In what percentage of the 1,130,941 residential burglaries reported by the FBI in 2015 were gun safes stolen?

I have not clue. But ask me how many times I've investigated an insurance claim where the entire safe was either stolen or moved to where they could cut or pry it open. Of course firearm theft are more frequent. But my comment was based on my experience. And I deal with burglaries daily.

 

[ed308]

Duplicate post.

 

[AustinN4]

But ask me how many times I've investigated an insurance claim where the entire safe was either stolen or moved to where they could cut or pry it open.

I'll play - how many and over what period of time?

 

[lonestardiver]

What size of safe ?
How was it moved ?
Where was safe located in house/garage ?
Was there a driveway they used that wrapped around the house so they were not seen ?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

This, in part, was what I was trying to relay. I lived all my childhood with the family glass door gun cabinet in the living room. The key was on top in easy reach. I darn sure knew not to go near them without dad. I was no doubt curious so he taught me from a very early age to respect firearms and taught me the basic rules early too like a firearm is always loaded unless verified and never point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy, etc.

Discipline goes a long way with kids (this may lead me to a rant on what I think is wrong with kids these days!). The very young will be more difficult because they are curious and haven't had the time to be taught.

Everyone needs to measure risk vs reward on what type of safe you get. I got a Fat Boy Jr Liberty safe. It was to make my wife happy at first and later realized the benefits of having a fire rated safe. It was largest safe with the best fire rating I could afford at the time. It's full now......

Same here, and ours was not even locked...

 

[TheDan]

My parents kept a few guns in the pantry, a couple in their closet, and a .22 I was allowed to use under supervision on top of the entertainment center.

I kept my Red Ryder by the back door. Rarely went outside without it

 

[karlac]

I kept my Red Ryder by the back door. Rarely went outside without it

LOL ... got Red Ryder at six and took to shooting mosquito hawks off the one & only electric line coming into the farm house, to the point I shot what passed for insulation off the wire. Butt was suitably bruised for what I thought was an admirable feat.