There Will be no Confiscation, You Will Hand Them Over

[benenglish]

I find it fascinating how often this topic recurs. Not on TGT but over time, in various venues. I think I first became aware of it when I was used by the John Birch Society as a speaker ~40 years ago.

Here's a short take on the subject from 6 years ago, if you want something to think about instead of just argue: http://jpfo.org/alerts2010/alert20100823.htm

It's a list of actions the government could take and the question "Where is your line in the sand?" I wrote out my answers and found it a good thought experiment.

 

[jrbfishn]

Good stuff there Ben. A lot of food for thought.


Sent from my iPad by an idiot coffeeholic.

 

[AustinN4]

And then there is this: http://www.ammoland.com/2016/09/atf-expands-snitch-service-anonymous-app/

ATF Expands Snitch ‘Service’ with Anonymous App

 

[texas skeeter]

Most of those items from Bens link are occurring today.....

 

[texas skeeter]

Wow Austin, I'll bet that app goes down on a daily basis due to over use in Chicago! Lol

 

[AustinN4]

Wow Austin, I'll bet that app goes down on a daily basis due to over use in Chicago! Lol

Coming soon to a neighbor near YOU!

 

[oldag]

Farmers and large land owners in the colonies operated the same way a large number of farmers operate today, on credit. At the time of the 13 colonies that credit came from England. MOST of the "richest" colonist were nearly slaves themselves to English banks and creditors. The only hope they had of ever being "free" was to be free of their debt, by revolution, and stiffing the people they borrowed the money from.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_in_the_Thirteen_Colonies

Not everything is the way it is "sold" or at least rarely is it the whole story.

You don't get much support, even from the rabble, by inciting them to revolution with the rally cry, "Risk your life to free me from the money I borrowed to buy up all the land before you got here!"

Not to mention Washington among others was holding worthless land claims against the "new land" west of the mountains. Land England promised to remain in the hands of the Indians and prohibited the colonies from expanding in to. At least they were worthless so long as we remained colonies under English rule.

I repeat, there were patriots who had significant wealth (like that word better?) who lost it all. The history is there. Read it.

 

[atticus finch]

I like it! So who's down for an illegal machine gun shoot?

The hypothetical scenario is an adaptation of something that happened to me in real life... One day I was shooting my AK on my own property and I had two deputies roll up because they heard me. They said they had heard "automatic fire" and needed to check it out. I told them that what they heard was a fast trigger finger on a semi-auto, but they insisted on inspecting the gun. The funniest part of the whole interaction was that they obviously had no idea how to discern a semi-auto AK form a full auto one, but they still wanted to look at the gun. We BS'ed for a bit, and they went on their way.

I was obliviously rather annoyed at them coming onto my property and "investigating" something they don't even have a clue about, but I maintained my friendly demeanor throughout the interaction. I'd bet if I had told them to pound sand I would have been arrested, and the gun sent to "the lab" where they would have dicked with it until they got it to double fire or something. Then lots of people on here would see the news story and say I won my stupid prize.

I wouldn't choose a shoot such as this for a starting point. Iti is a truth the "laws" regarding these weapons are every bit unconstitutional as any other infringement on our civil right to bear arms, from a political and/or culture war standpoint it is not the right place to start as it inherently sacrifices one of our two chief strengths.
The first is our numbers. Our chief strength has always been in our numbers, how many of us there are.
Secondly we have the inherent moral high ground in terms of the truth of the law. However that is subject to the lies of the culture war being perpetrated by the political left, statists, whatever your term for them.
From a cultural standpoint, firearms such as these are not familiar to the average person and were a scenario such I proposed enacted, it would be far too easy for the leftists to propagate the lie of "these lunatics are claiming they have the right to have a machine gun!" With the insinuation that anyone who claims such a thing is morally wrong to begin with and/or thier claim to the right to own one is illegal. And the average person, being completely unfamiliar with both these weapons and the law would likely believe the lie. We just lost the moral high ground in terms of the truth of the law.
Change that scenario to the start of this thread or any australian type confiscation within this country based on whatever rationale and now we're talking about semi-auto firearms which are much more readily available to the individual and they're far more familiar with. For example: look at AR15 sales over the past 8 years, off the charts.
How many homes own one of those compared to something belt-fed?
Now you're talking about something the average person likely has in thier closet and a large group of individuals at a range are openly defying a supposed law which says what they are doing is illegal are carrying the exact same thing as what that individual has sitting in thier closet.
That situation puts things squarely within our chief strengths, our numbers and the moral high ground in terms of the issue at hand.

 

[Younggun]

Farmers and large land owners in the colonies operated the same way a large number of farmers operate today, on credit. At the time of the 13 colonies that credit came from England. MOST of the "richest" colonist were nearly slaves themselves to English banks and creditors. The only hope they had of ever being "free" was to be free of their debt, by revolution, and stiffing the people they borrowed the money from.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_in_the_Thirteen_Colonies

Not everything is the way it is "sold" or at least rarely is it the whole story.

You don't get much support, even from the rabble, by inciting them to revolution with the rally cry, "Risk your life to free me from the money I borrowed to buy up all the land before you got here!"

Not to mention Washington among others was holding worthless land claims against the "new land" west of the mountains. Land England promised to remain in the hands of the Indians and prohibited the colonies from expanding in to. At least they were worthless so long as we remained colonies under English rule.

I see your one wikipedia link and raise you with more than one facet of the story.

http://www.revolutionary-war.net/causes-of-the-american-revolution.html


It's dangerous to not look at any subject in it's entirety.

 

[Younggun]

Hell, some could claim that all Americans owe a great debt to our own government, though many are adamantly against many of the things the government wastes our money on. Yet we are still taxed in order to "repay our debt".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Southpaw]

And then there is this: http://www.ammoland.com/2016/09/atf-expands-snitch-service-anonymous-app/

ATF Expands Snitch ‘Service’ with Anonymous App

That can work against them with a concerted effort of submitting false tips.

 

[Younggun]

Yeah, boy since nobody who reports will really be anonymous they will teach you a lesson for ducking with them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Captain]

The cards are stacked against us. We may have to reshuffle the deck.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[HKShooter65]

I envision hundreds of thousands of burned out homes all across the United States of America.

Like 9/13/94?
When Bill banned a whole host of "assault" weapons.

There were three burned out homes.
Two from smoking in bed and another from rats chewing a wire.

Melodrama theater here.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I repeat, there were patriots who had significant wealth (like that word better?) who lost it all. The history is there. Read it.

What makes you thing I haven't read it?

There were SOME patriots with significant wealth. I don't think that's new information to most people. There were many with out wealth, I don't think that's a surprise.

There were also a LOT who people THINK were wealthy and who were NOT. There were many who people lofty reputations who were purely motivated by their own self interests and often at the expense of all those around them.

 

[Jack Ryan]

It's dangerous to not look at any subject in it's entirety.

My own POINT exactly.

The wiki isn't suppose to be a thesis paper, just an easily accessible unbiased support item. I'm sure there are a million more in the thousand google pages that came up in the first search. It's not suppose to exemplify all motivating factors for the war, merely the existence of ONE motivating factor for revolution in the colonies rarely noted. If I'd just said they were fighting for freedom, there is hardly need for and independent support source.

 

[Younggun]

My own POINT exactly.

The wiki isn't suppose to be a thesis paper, just an easily accessible unbiased support item. I'm sure there are a million more in the thousand google pages that came up in the first search. It's not suppose to exemplify all motivating factors for the war, merely the existence of ONE motivating factor for revolution in the colonies rarely noted. If I'd just said they were fighting for freedom, there is hardly need for and independent support source.

No, it wasn't your point. Otherwise you would have mentioned more than one factor that in your wording twists it in to something much different than it actually is.

You also completely ignored all of my post choosing to pick a small part to attempt to strengthen your position, much like you did with your post covering the revolution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TX69]

I have read Barry has spent the last 8 years weeding out Military Officers that say they won't fire on Americans. Or lean towards Christianity.

Shot placement is everything.

Burn in Hell Hussein..... burn.

 

[Younggun]

You might even do a little more research and find that the colonies desired peaceful separation with continued trade relations with Britain in which none of the debts would have been defaulted on. A notion the King refused.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TX69]

Like 9/13/94?
When Bill banned a whole host of "assault" weapons.

There were three burned out homes.
Two from smoking in bed and another from rats chewing a wire.

Melodrama theater here.

Snarky but you fail to mention that it was simply a ban on future purchases and not anything close to confiscation. I lived through that decade and it was a HUGE eye opener. I had never been active in politics nor did I spend any time researching topics like "taxes" or much less "gun laws". After Slick Willy (our first black Prez) I became very active and made it a priority to make major changes in my life. The state of TEXAS became an extremely important topic/issue in my life which led me down a far more positive track and with unbreakable beliefs.

The North Easterners in America will fold like a cheap suit as they have been force-ably massaged into giving up nearly all of their freedoms to date. The West Coast is slowly becoming much of the same as the rest of the die- hards are flocking to the South. From the people that I have met in this state over the last twenty years I can say without a doubt they will not be standing in some line handing over their small arms.

Come and take it ...