Thoughts on Perimeter Defense Rifle

[jrbfishn]

Human size targets at 300 with a GOOD RDS or reflex sight is very doable. Especially with a 3moa dot.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[easy rider]

I think I can hit a vehicle or person at 300yds, a bullseye would be a whole different story.

 

[Vaquero]

Bear with me.

If you can see it moving, you can hold a red dot on it and squeeze a trigger. We're not shooting bughole groups, we're aiming center mass.

62 gr green tip will disable these newer aluminum engines.
Sure, it'll die a slow death, but so will one hit by a 50 bmg.
If they rammed the gate and are coming up the drive at 40 mph, they'll coast to your porch either way.

5.56 in an AR15 will get you 300yds easy.
Follow ups are easy. Probably a 50% hit rate at 200 yds. (Based on watching a mag dump last weekend)

30 rounds of 3000 fps ammo in the mag well.
60 more in your hip pockets.
Not to be taken lightly .

Get an AR.
Shoot it.
Learn it.

'Murica!

 

[Dad_Roman]

So, I would have trouble hitting a target at 100 yards with no magnification (he's10 years older than me), and he wants to be able to shoot 300 yards.
Is an RDS his best option really?

An honest question but framed in an absolute.

OP said "out to about 300 yds"

Now do I want to scare marauders or fence busters away? Then yea, spray thirty downrange and watchem scatter. Do I want to put a well placed round right between the eyes? Then yea, a scope, and the .308, maybe even .338L, might even consider the NV stuff at that point.

Defensive/offensive. Lots of room for consideration and interpretation in his post.

 

[Dad_Roman]

30 rounds of 3000 fps ammo in the mag well.
60 more in your hip pockets.
Not to be taken lightly .


'Murica!

Up a 300 yard driveway....Dats a lotta friggen lead. Nobody's gonna advance through that.

 

[McCrapper]

Pushing 70 years old and now living in the country on acreage with a house set back from the road, I figure it is time to acquire a rifle that can provide some good perimeter defense fire power out to about 300 yds in the event of a SHTF situation where pretty much anyone that plows through my gate is up to no good and would need to be quickly convinced to move on and find easier pickings. I am no longer the kind of rifle shot that I used to be so at this late stage I am looking for the right combination of accuracy, capacity and penetration power. Not a big fan of the 5.56 but I realize its advantages of light weight and accuracy over the 7.62 rifles I have used all my life. I have never owned an AR although I am familiar with them and have shot enough of my friends' to be comfortable with their capabilities for perimeter defense. My two main rifles in the past have been a Remington 742 in 30-06 and a Winchester 100 in .308. Both excellent and accurate rifles for me and the main reasons I never bought an AR. Neither, however, has the capacity or reliability I would want in something that my life or family depended upon to hold off a half dozen or perps intent on bodily harm.

Given that I intend to buy a quality AR in 5.56, I am a bit at a loss about the following:

• 30 rd magazines seem to be the right compromise between capacity and weight. Are there better options if defending a well entrenched position?
• What kind of optics? I am used to using quality 3 X 9 variable scopes but it seems I might be better with a more rugged "point and shoot" optic that provides better sight picture instead of magnification.
• Night vision is fine for hog hunting but is there any rationale to have it on a defense rifle?
• Is a suppressor worth the paperwork and cost for this kind of rifle? Will it provide recoil advantages in a combat situation?

I hope these questions don't sound stupid, but I have spent my life relying on handguns for home defense. Of course, living in the cities and suburbs is a different animal and I now realize the I am a bit out of my element in the country and want to have a plan to defend my property if need be. I feel perfectly safe where I am now but, then again, no place is really safe these days, especially when some folks view older citizens as easy targets. Part of me says having a rifle at the ready with several hundred rounds loaded is foolishness, but the other part tells me it is no more foolish than when I lived in the city and had several pistols stashed in different rooms of the house so I would never be caught off guard.

Im rolling with 7.62 x51 if I am in a entrenched position, barrier penetration and knockdown power seem important for country living. Regardless, your questions revolve around lightweight and lots of rounds on target. 5.56 seems sufficient for that.

1. 30rd mags would be my choice, if you arent moving and stationary you can make the case for 100rd drums. As with anything a little mobility is going to be your friend, dumping 100 rounds from the same position may not be the smartest idea against multiple attackers from multiple attack angles. Firing bursts from multiple locations seems ideal for long term survivability.

2. Red dot or Holo optics are going to provide the fastest amount target acquisition with most likely the least amount of accuracy. You mention you are 70 and not quite the shot you used to be, I assume that has alot to due with your eyesight deteriorating. For that reason I would look to some type of variable optic or fixed 4x power like an ACOG. Positive target identification should be important, assuming you are caught off guard and your only weapon quick and handy is this 5.56 I would like to be sure Im shooting at a group of bad guys and not a small family that might be looking for help. SHTF scenarios will have both situations, whether you choose to help that family or shoot at them is a different conversation.

3. The ability to see at night will separate the men from the boys if the SHTF. There is 24 hours in a day, roughly half of that is darkness. The ability to see men unloading out of a truck 300 yards away at your gate to walk to your house and get the jump on your family seems important for me.

4. Suppressor will save your ears and it will reduce the muzzle flash of the rifle and help mask the direction from which you are shooting from. If they can't pinpoint where you are firing from that gives you a huge advantage. It will reduce recoil and since you are only looking for 300 yards I would pair the suppressor with a 10'' barrel to keep the weight down and maneuverability intact.

I hope that helped answer some of your questions.

 

[easy rider]

I thought sure this was going to turn into another AR vs. Ak debate by now.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Yes. Along with practice.

Maybe I should have said, trouble hitting the target because I can't see it well enough.

 

[diesel1959]

Yes. Along with practice.

And here I was gonna suggest an ACOG. And frankly, I still am going to do so. A 3x magnification will suffice to give excellent shots from close-in to the range the OP is interested in. Also, it will give him target identification capabilities that he won't have with a red dot device.

I've never really liked having a red dot and then a flip-off magnifier. I just hang with the ACOG and done. I've got plenty of rifles and pistol-caliber carbines wearing just a red dot; however, none of those are what I'd use for "perimeter defense".

As to OP's question, I think an AR15 is the way to go but personally, I'd choose something a bit heavier-hitting, like the 6.8SPC. Though, if you choose to stick with 5.56/.223, I don't see your abilities being problematic at all.

EDIT: I am not going to say "you need a suppressor"; however, I would be using one in that scenario. Day or night, masking source is important and even more paramount, maintaining my hearing. Shooting from inside a building is FRICKING LOUD!

 

[Vaquero]

A couple of really bright lights placed properly along or aimed at the approach area would help too.
Not expensive, by firearm, ammo, optics standards.

Just put them forward of your position.

 

[FireInTheWire]

Pushing 70 years old and now living in the country on acreage with a house set back from the road, I figure it is time to acquire a rifle that can provide some good perimeter defense fire power out to about 300 yds in the event of a SHTF situation where pretty much anyone that plows through my gate is up to no good and would need to be quickly convinced to move on and find easier pickings. I am no longer the kind of rifle shot that I used to be so at this late stage I am looking for the right combination of accuracy, capacity and penetration power. Not a big fan of the 5.56 but I realize its advantages of light weight and accuracy over the 7.62 rifles I have used all my life. I have never owned an AR although I am familiar with them and have shot enough of my friends' to be comfortable with their capabilities for perimeter defense. My two main rifles in the past have been a Remington 742 in 30-06 and a Winchester 100 in .308. Both excellent and accurate rifles for me and the main reasons I never bought an AR. Neither, however, has the capacity or reliability I would want in something that my life or family depended upon to hold off a half dozen or perps intent on bodily harm.

Given that I intend to buy a quality AR in 5.56, I am a bit at a loss about the following:

• 30 rd magazines seem to be the right compromise between capacity and weight. Are there better options if defending a well entrenched position?
• What kind of optics? I am used to using quality 3 X 9 variable scopes but it seems I might be better with a more rugged "point and shoot" optic that provides better sight picture instead of magnification.
• Night vision is fine for hog hunting but is there any rationale to have it on a defense rifle?
• Is a suppressor worth the paperwork and cost for this kind of rifle? Will it provide recoil advantages in a combat situation?

I hope these questions don't sound stupid, but I have spent my life relying on handguns for home defense. Of course, living in the cities and suburbs is a different animal and I now realize the I am a bit out of my element in the country and want to have a plan to defend my property if need be. I feel perfectly safe where I am now but, then again, no place is really safe these days, especially when some folks view older citizens as easy targets. Part of me says having a rifle at the ready with several hundred rounds loaded is foolishness, but the other part tells me it is no more foolish than when I lived in the city and had several pistols stashed in different rooms of the house so I would never be caught off guard.

I would advise not over thinking it and sir... those are not stupid questions.

First off. A suppressor is the best thing you can buy after your gun and optic. IMHO
The military does amazing things with the simple 5.56. It's cheap and deadly with hp's.
I like the red dot. It's point and shoot. But a 1x4 or 6 wouldn't be a bad option either or ACOG
Check the weights of some ar's. Get ya one that feels balanced. Any of the good big names.

Love my 300blk... but ammo is more $$ going that route.

 

[easy rider]

And here I was gonna suggest an ACOG. And frankly, I still am going to do so. A 3x magnification will suffice to give excellent shots from close-in to the range the OP is interested in. Also, it will give him target identification capabilities that he won't have with a red dot device.

I've never really liked having a red dot and then a flip-off magnifier. I just hang with the ACOG and done. I've got plenty of rifles and pistol-caliber carbines wearing just a red dot; however, none of those are what I'd use for "perimeter defense".

As to OP's question, I think an AR15 is the way to go but personally, I'd choose something a bit heavier-hitting, like the 6.8SPC. Though, if you choose to stick with 5.56/.223, I don't see your abilities being problematic at all.

Being the "not so privileged" the closest I can justify is the Primary Arms ACSS.

 

[Vaquero]

Maybe I should have said, trouble hitting the target because I can't see it well enough.

I don't know what rifle will fix that.
Using a scope, even low power, takes practice.
Acquiring a target with a scope isn't easy.
If it's moving, it's down right hard to do.
Once OP settles on a setup. It's still gonna take practice.

Trigger time is fun though. Shouldn't be a problem .

 

[RoadRunner]

If you want to stop vehicles the .50 Beowolf would be my 1st choice... fits any milspec ar-15 lower & magazine

Stopping a vehicle with an AR15 is very easy, a few rounds through the driver's side windshield works very well. Or a few rounds through the driver's side window or door will work also.

 

[diesel1959]

Being the "not so privileged" the closest I can justify is the Primary Arms ACSS.

Yeah, I just say "ACOG", but not tied at all to that brand. Any fixed 3x or 4x prismatic setup is the shizz. But I do love the ACOGs I've tried a LOT.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I don't know what rifle will fix that.
Using a scope, even low power, takes practice.
Acquiring a target with a scope isn't easy.
If it's moving, it's down right hard to do.
Once OP settles on a setup. It's still gonna take practice.

Trigger time is fun though. Shouldn't be a problem .

I can shoot rifles just fine, my eyes need magnification now is all.
I understand what you're getting at, but past 100 yards, I'd want some magnification.

 

[Vaquero]

I can shoot rifles just fine, my eyes need magnification now is all.
I understand what you're getting at, but past 100 yards, I'd want some magnification.

I surely understand .
I'm just the opposite though.
I can see fine past my reach. I need glasses to read my phone though.

 

[FireInTheWire]

Yes. Along with practice.

Yes. I have shot wine bottle at 330yrds with a red dot. I was taken back by it's performance. But my eyes are 36yrs old without correction. I do understand that vision makes a difference.

 

[easy rider]

I like magnification for target shooting, mainly to see where I hit at longer ranges.

 

[diesel1959]

And the thing about an ACOG-type optic is that you don't close one eye. You keep both eyes open, which eliminates some of the target acquisition difficulty that Vaquero mentioned and is concerned with. Using an ACOG is nothing like using a regular rifle scope.