Vehicle Report from the 2021 Freeze

[oldag]

You think black ice is proprietary to Texas? It’s the same black ice I learned to deal with everywhere else I lived. Know where it is usually located (shady areas, bridges, etc) and try to avoid it. If you have to drive on it, slow speed, no sudden inputs, and deal with it. Maybe it’s better you just stay off the roads.


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Anyone who says they can control their vehicle when it is on a frictionless surface... Well, nothing more need be said.

Most yankees who brag about driving on ice do so under different conditions. Drive "on ice" when really driving on a layer of snow? Yep, that can be done. Driving on ice when the temps are well below freezing (which as we all know is rare, but not unseen, in Texas) and no water is on top of the ice? Yep, that can be done.

Driving on typical Texas ice where there is a layer of water on top? Nope. Basic laws of engineering/physics apply to everyone, no matter how much an "expert driver" someone thinks they are.

Sliding (with no control over the vehicle) across a short stretch of black ice on a straight, flat road may turn out okay. Heaven help you on a curve or inclined road. Of if due to something/someone else on the road you need to change direction. Something to do with coefficient of friction, inertia, torque, etc.

 

[sergeant69]

took the grandkids and dog out in the diesel KAH-WEE-SAKI 4x4 mule to break up ice on the stock tanks 2 days ago. ice/snow/deep mud...never missed a beat. kids loved driving it on slip and slide surfaces. DIRT not pavement so....
wanted to take 1961 willys jeep out but wouldn't start and didn't wanna go thru the hassle in 19 deg

 

[kbaxter60]

Anyone who says they can control their vehicle when it is on a frictionless surface... Well, nothing more need be said.

Most yankees who brag about driving on ice do so under different conditions. Drive "on ice" when really driving on a layer of snow? Yep, that can be done. Driving on ice when the temps are well below freezing (which as we all know is rare, but not unseen, in Texas) and no water is on top of the ice? Yep, that can be done.

Driving on typical Texas ice where there is a layer of water on top? Nope. Basic laws of engineering/physics apply to everyone, no matter how much an "expert driver" someone thinks they are.

Sliding (with no control over the vehicle) across a short stretch of black ice on a straight, flat road may turn out okay. Heaven help you on a curve or inclined road. Of if due to something/someone else on the road you need to change direction. Something to do with coefficient of friction, inertia, torque, etc.

Much truth here. I spent 33 winters in eastern WA and drove in some nasty conditions. Yet, the worst road conditions I have EVER dealt with were from freezing rain in the Texas panhandle. We were on divided highway and going maybe 30 MPH. Just letting off the gas would cause the car to fishtail from the deceleration (FWD). We finally ended up in the ditch next to the road, but thankfully were able to drive out. It soon turned to "just" rain and was good for the rest of the trip.

 

[TreyG-20]

I just used a four wheeler to get around. Passed 2 cops while riding down the road Tuesday. They waved. My truck has highway tires and is 2wd. It was stuck until mid afternoon yesterday.

 

[Brains]

Some people know how to drive, some ... don't.

Black ice isn't an automatic death sentence. If you went off the road, you likely did something wrong. Think of the physics, they're quite simple. You have an object in motion on a surface that has a varying amount of friction. Think of it like a shuffleboard table in the bar. If you fling the puck straight down the middle, it's not going off the edge. The same thing happens with your vehicle. An object on a frictionless surface can do ONE thing only - keep going in the same direction. Your vehicle is no different. Keep in mind though, the friction coefficient of black ice is low, but not zero. Your forward momentum is by far the largest force input, but not the only one. If you found yourself in the ditch, you were either pointed in the wrong direction to begin with, or you had more than zero friction and used it to drive off the road. The physics dictate it.

In Texas black ice is reliably found in two places, Bridges and overpasses. Knowing this, every time you come across one you should be doing the following:
1. Making sure you have plenty of distance between you and the car in front of you.
2. Making sure if the idiot in front of you slows down, you can too (if you slow down before an overpass in icy conditions, you're the type of person responsible for the 100-something pileup in Dallas)
3. Making sure you have enough forward momentum to overcome any influences on trajectory. If you get hit with a gust of wind on an overpass that is very slick, you want enough speed to keep you pointed at the roadway on the other side where you'll have more traction.
4. If you do start drifting out of your lane, you DO NOT try to correct while you're on the ice. You keep the front wheels pointed precisely in the direction the vehicle is MOVING. You DO NOT want to set down on the other side with your front wheels suddenly providing angular momentum while the rear wheels are offering none. People who try are the ones you see in the wall.
5. Keep the inputs as neutral as possible. No power in or out, no steering inputs. You want to be a dead rock skating straight across to the other side.

There's times when you have to make a tough decision, like if you encounter a black ice curve or the roadway is off level. In these cases the math can be tough, so the easier option is to look for any part of the roadway - or shoulder - where you can put a couple tires on anything more sticky.

 

[oldag]

Some people know how to drive, some ... don't.

Black ice isn't an automatic death sentence. If you went off the road, you likely did something wrong. Think of the physics, they're quite simple. You have an object in motion on a surface that has a varying amount of friction. Think of it like a shuffleboard table in the bar. If you fling the puck straight down the middle, it's not going off the edge. The same thing happens with your vehicle. An object on a frictionless surface can do ONE thing only - keep going in the same direction. Your vehicle is no different. Keep in mind though, the friction coefficient of black ice is low, but not zero. Your forward momentum is by far the largest force input, but not the only one. If you found yourself in the ditch, you were either pointed in the wrong direction to begin with, or you had more than zero friction and used it to drive off the road. The physics dictate it.

In Texas black ice is reliably found in two places, Bridges and overpasses. Knowing this, every time you come across one you should be doing the following:
1. Making sure you have plenty of distance between you and the car in front of you.
2. Making sure if the idiot in front of you slows down, you can too (if you slow down before an overpass in icy conditions, you're the type of person responsible for the 100-something pileup in Dallas)
3. Making sure you have enough forward momentum to overcome any influences on trajectory. If you get hit with a gust of wind on an overpass that is very slick, you want enough speed to keep you pointed at the roadway on the other side where you'll have more traction.
4. If you do start drifting out of your lane, you DO NOT try to correct while you're on the ice. You keep the front wheels pointed precisely in the direction the vehicle is MOVING. You DO NOT want to set down on the other side with your front wheels suddenly providing angular momentum while the rear wheels are offering none. People who try are the ones you see in the wall.
5. Keep the inputs as neutral as possible. No power in or out, no steering inputs. You want to be a dead rock skating straight across to the other side.

There's times when you have to make a tough decision, like if you encounter a black ice curve or the roadway is off level. In these cases the math can be tough, so the easier option is to look for any part of the roadway - or shoulder - where you can put a couple tires on anything more sticky.

Failing to state one incredibly important fact, though.

You are NOT in control of your vehicle. IF you are on level ground, IF you want to go straight, you will continue on your desired path.

EXCEPT, if one tire hits a patch of dirt, un-iced pavement. At that point, one wheel will have some friction and thus traction, the rest will not. At that point you may well find the car no longer heading the direction you desired. The longer the patch of black ice, the greater the chance you will encounter this.

If there is an object in the road ahead of you, good luck. You're gonna need it. This is how the 100 car pileup in FW occurred.

If the road curves, brace for impact. If the road is sloped, be prepared to clean out the ditch.

Sliding under inertia is NOT driving on black ice. Driving means you have control.

All the tips above are sound, if you hit black ice unexpectedly as we all have at one time or another.

 

[cvgunman]

Some people know how to drive, some ... don't.

Black ice isn't an automatic death sentence. If you went off the road, you likely did something wrong. Think of the physics, they're quite simple. You have an object in motion on a surface that has a varying amount of friction. Think of it like a shuffleboard table in the bar. If you fling the puck straight down the middle, it's not going off the edge. The same thing happens with your vehicle. An object on a frictionless surface can do ONE thing only - keep going in the same direction. Your vehicle is no different. Keep in mind though, the friction coefficient of black ice is low, but not zero. Your forward momentum is by far the largest force input, but not the only one. If you found yourself in the ditch, you were either pointed in the wrong direction to begin with, or you had more than zero friction and used it to drive off the road. The physics dictate it.

In Texas black ice is reliably found in two places, Bridges and overpasses. Knowing this, every time you come across one you should be doing the following:
1. Making sure you have plenty of distance between you and the car in front of you.
2. Making sure if the idiot in front of you slows down, you can too (if you slow down before an overpass in icy conditions, you're the type of person responsible for the 100-something pileup in Dallas)
3. Making sure you have enough forward momentum to overcome any influences on trajectory. If you get hit with a gust of wind on an overpass that is very slick, you want enough speed to keep you pointed at the roadway on the other side where you'll have more traction.
4. If you do start drifting out of your lane, you DO NOT try to correct while you're on the ice. You keep the front wheels pointed precisely in the direction the vehicle is MOVING. You DO NOT want to set down on the other side with your front wheels suddenly providing angular momentum while the rear wheels are offering none. People who try are the ones you see in the wall.
5. Keep the inputs as neutral as possible. No power in or out, no steering inputs. You want to be a dead rock skating straight across to the other side.

There's times when you have to make a tough decision, like if you encounter a black ice curve or the roadway is off level. In these cases the math can be tough, so the easier option is to look for any part of the roadway - or shoulder - where you can put a couple tires on anything more sticky.

I am no physicist but my common sense is telling me that the crown of the road will keep your tires canted a slight bit toward the center (depending on the crown of the road) so for your theory to be effective, the roads would have to be flat with no crown.

 

[oldag]

It is one thing to hit black ice unknowingly.

It is another to claim one can drive on it. And knowingly attempt to do so.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

2. Making sure if the idiot in front of you slows down, you can too (if you slow down before an overpass in icy conditions, you're the type of person responsible for the 100-something pileup in Dallas)

So DON'T slow down when you come to a point where you expect there to be ice?

 

[Younggun]

Fun fact: If you get a Roman full of people and ask for a show of hands of who thinks they are a better than average driver, nearly everyone will raise their hands.

I’m willing to bet most of the cars I saw wrecked or in a ditch over the last week were driven by people who felt they knew how to drive in those conditions and would be just fine.

Not attacking anyone, just something to think about.


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[cvgunman]

I'm trying to visualize a "Roman" full of people

 

[Younggun]

2. Making sure if the idiot in front of you slows down, you can too (if you slow down before an overpass in icy conditions, you're the type of person responsible for the 100-something pileup in Dallas)

That’s not what caused that pile up. And if people had known that overpass was iced over and had slowed down before hitting it expecting the ice to be there we probably wouldn’t have had cars being launched in to the air and not nearly as many serious injuries or deaths.


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[cycleguy2300]

So DON'T slow down when you come to a point where you expect there to be ice?

As slow as possible, as fast as necessary.

A little momentum is your friend, too much is your enemy. Driving on ice it as limited a traction surface as there is, but the same rules apply on it as for other limited traction surfaces like dirt, mud or sand.

2004 LR Disco II set up for overlanding was my ride (and various years of Ford Taurus PIs which as AWD) and it did great.

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[ZX9RCAM]

As slow as possible, as fast as necessary.

A little momentum is your friend, too much is your enemy. Driving on ice it as limited a traction surface as there is, but the same rules apply on it as for other limited traction surfaces like dirt, mud or sand.

2004 LR Disco II set up for overlanding was my ride (and various years of Ford Taurus PIs which as AWD) and it did great.

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This is what I was thinking, and why I questioned it.

 

[candcallen]

If you know how to drive in ice and snow, you're making better progress through said ice and snow in your little blue front wheel drive coupe with two year old all-seasons than brosephs in their lifted four by trucks with mud tires.

I have a full electric locker on my 2WD ford trucks. Never had a problem getting thru anything. Ice snow mud etc. Infact a locker will get you thru most crap that AWD or 4WD without locking diffs cant get thru.

Without a locker, even with the ABS based limited slip and traction control, all the power just goes to one wheel on the axle which sucks when it has no traction.

My daughter has limited snow n ice experience and her front wheel drive fusion drove circles around bubbas. They eat tires but Front Wheel Drive vehicles have advantages.

 

[Coop45]

With the great Texas Freeze of 2021 almost behind us, anyone have lessons learned from this painful week?

I have a couple:

1. Totally screwed up and forgot to stock up on diesel anti-gel. My Diesel pickup went down and took me a day to get it running when I finally located some anti gel (used Sea Foam). I generally keep some Power Service (white bottle) on hand to put in the tank when temps drop but forgot to restock my stash. I won’t be in this situation again

2. With my truck down, I was relegated to driving my daughters 2018 Subaru Forrester. I had never driven a Subaru in the snow. I took that buggy through the deepest snow I could find (8-10” drifts) and it never missed a beat and barely spun a tire!

I grew up driving Jeep’s in New Hampshire. I’ve lived in Alaska and Montana for over 15 years between the two. I’ve owned Jeep, Chevy, Dodge, Isuzu, and Ford 4X4’s. That little Subaru with basic all season radials is as good as any of them in deep snow, I swear!

Thinking hard about replacing my wife’s Accord with a new Subaru this summer.

If you get a Subaru, don't put the stickers on the paint. For some unexplained reason a lot of owners feel compelled to do that.

 

[BuzzinSATX]

If you get a Subaru, don't put the stickers on the paint. For some unexplained reason a lot of owners feel compelled to do that.

Stickers? What are you talking about?

 

[BuzzinSATX]

It is one thing to hit black ice unknowingly.

It is another to claim one can drive on it. And knowingly attempt to do so.

If you are driving in sub freezing temps, especially on a rural road or a road that has a fair amount of shaded spots, and there has been any moisture like rain, fog, melting snow, dew, etc., you should assume you'll hit black ice, especially during overcast or low light conditions.

And yes, like any ice, you can probably drive on it as long as you are capable of maintaining some level of momentum and traction. Obviously, hills, curves, and excessive speed (excessive to conditions, not excessive to the posted limit) are conditions that can cause serious issues.

As I said in my original post, I've driven on icy and snow packed roads most of my life. We used to go to work every day, regardless of the roads. Yes, we had snow plows and sand/salt trucks, but they are only trying to keep roads passable, not necessarily completely free of snow or ice. And for the most part, they concentrate on the main roads and only hit rural routes when the main roads are in good shape.

The problem with driving on snow and ice in Texas for me isn't necessarily the road conditions as much is it is about the knuckleheads on the road who have no clue how to drive on them with me. They have no clue to slow down or increase following and stopping distances.

As far as vehicles, in my experience and generally speaking, on snow and ice, all wheel drive > four wheel drive > front wheel drive > rear wheel drive. And the difference between AWD and 4WD is sensors that properly apply power to the tires that have the most traction. The Subaru, Audi, and Volvo AWD systems are examples of what I'm talking about, versus my Chevy Silverado 4X4.

But drivers skill and experience will definitely play a role. I've been stuck a few times, mostly when I was a new driver and thought I was bullet proof. I knew a few guys in both Alaska and Montana who owned regular two wheel drive trucks and went all winter long and rarely had problems. But they ran quality snow tires on their pickup trucks (they put them on in the fall and took them coffin the spring, added a lot of weight to the beds, and carried a set of time chains, a tow chain, some boards, and a shovel in case they got stuck. But these guys pulled way more folks out from the ditch than they ever had to be "rescued" themselves.

All that said, I agree that true ice storm, where there is a sheet of pure ice, frozen on top of all the roads, is nearly impossible for anything but a zamboni!

YMMV

 

[Coop45]

Stickers? What are you talking about?

Decals

 

[BuzzinSATX]

Decals

You mean vehicle registration decals? Didn’t know folks pit them on paint...