Vehicle Report from the 2021 Freeze

[ZX9RCAM]

You mean vehicle registration decals? Didn’t know folks pit them on paint...

Stickers, like you might see on the rear window of vehicles.
Most subarus have some kind of stickers on the rear window.
Humorous, serious, etc....

 

[oldag]

If you are driving in sub freezing temps, especially on a rural road or a road that has a fair amount of shaded spots, and there has been any moisture like rain, fog, melting snow, dew, etc., you should assume you'll hit black ice, especially during overcast or low light conditions.

And yes, like any ice, you can probably drive on it as long as you are capable of maintaining some level of momentum and traction. Obviously, hills, curves, and excessive speed (excessive to conditions, not excessive to the posted limit) are conditions that can cause serious issues.

As I said in my original post, I've driven on icy and snow packed roads most of my life. We used to go to work every day, regardless of the roads. Yes, we had snow plows and sand/salt trucks, but they are only trying to keep roads passable, not necessarily completely free of snow or ice. And for the most part, they concentrate on the main roads and only hit rural routes when the main roads are in good shape.

The problem with driving on snow and ice in Texas for me isn't necessarily the road conditions as much is it is about the knuckleheads on the road who have no clue how to drive on them with me. They have no clue to slow down or increase following and stopping distances.

As far as vehicles, in my experience and generally speaking, on snow and ice, all wheel drive > four wheel drive > front wheel drive > rear wheel drive. And the difference between AWD and 4WD is sensors that properly apply power to the tires that have the most traction. The Subaru, Audi, and Volvo AWD systems are examples of what I'm talking about, versus my Chevy Silverado 4X4.

But drivers skill and experience will definitely play a role. I've been stuck a few times, mostly when I was a new driver and thought I was bullet proof. I knew a few guys in both Alaska and Montana who owned regular two wheel drive trucks and went all winter long and rarely had problems. But they ran quality snow tires on their pickup trucks (they put them on in the fall and took them coffin the spring, added a lot of weight to the beds, and carried a set of time chains, a tow chain, some boards, and a shovel in case they got stuck. But these guys pulled way more folks out from the ditch than they ever had to be "rescued" themselves.

All that said, I agree that true ice storm, where there is a sheet of pure ice, frozen on top of all the roads, is nearly impossible for anything but a zamboni!

YMMV

I saw more winter weather accidents in a week in Indiana than I have my entire life in Texas. I always supposed because they lived in those conditions so many months of the year, they simply got tired of taking their time going somewhere. Of course, most of them were driving old beaters. Hang some old tires off the side and go for it...

 

[cycleguy2300]

I have a full electric locker on my 2WD ford trucks. Never had a problem getting thru anything. Ice snow mud etc. Infact a locker will get you thru most crap that AWD or 4WD without locking diffs cant get thru.

Without a locker, even with the ABS based limited slip and traction control, all the power just goes to one wheel on the axle which sucks when it has no traction.

My daughter has limited snow n ice experience and her front wheel drive fusion drove circles around bubbas. They eat tires but Front Wheel Drive vehicles have advantages.

On ice, lockers can actually hurt overall traction. In a straight line you're better off, but in a turn, if forces a wheel to break traction and that can induce a slide or a stall if one tire doesn't have the traction to keep you moving.

Limited slip is the best on ice, but lockers have their place over an open diff most of the time.

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[Coop45]

You mean vehicle registration decals? Didn’t know folks pit them on paint...

You must not have any liberals down there.

 

[Dougw1515]

You must not have any liberals down there.

Must be a first huh? Subaru owner not knowing what stickers/decals are. I thought they came from the factory with at least 5!

 

[Brains]

Failing to state one incredibly important fact, though.

You are NOT in control of your vehicle. IF you are on level ground, IF you want to go straight, you will continue on your desired path.

I am no physicist but my common sense is telling me that the crown of the road will keep your tires canted a slight bit toward the center (depending on the crown of the road) so for your theory to be effective, the roads would have to be flat with no crown.

It is one thing to hit black ice unknowingly.

It is another to claim one can drive on it. And knowingly attempt to do so.

Please stay home in icy conditions.

oldag: One is always in control of their vehicle. If they are not, they should not be behind the wheel of it. I drove up to DFW in ice the day of, and home to the Houston area from DFW after the big pileup, also in snow and icy conditions. There was a fair amount of black ice that I drove on. I guess I must have died and my ghost is posting?
cvgunman: My driving is not based on theory, it's based on training and experience. The crown of a road is not a constant either, and a driver should be expected to read that (and use to their advantage) accordingly.

So DON'T slow down when you come to a point where you expect there to be ice?

No, continue at the same speed with your eyes targeted on the point where you know there to be more traction. People in warm climates are quite ignorant to a VERY important aspect of driving in poor conditions, and that is safety is directly impacted by traffic working as a unified system, rather than as a set of individual drivers. Don't slow down, just cruise over the slippery part in a straight line.

Fun fact: If you get a Roman full of people and ask for a show of hands of who thinks they are a better than average driver, nearly everyone will raise their hands.

I’m willing to bet most of the cars I saw wrecked or in a ditch over the last week were driven by people who felt they knew how to drive in those conditions and would be just fine.

Not attacking anyone, just something to think about.

Likely true.

That’s not what caused that pile up. And if people had known that overpass was iced over and had slowed down before hitting it expecting the ice to be there we probably wouldn’t have had cars being launched in to the air and not nearly as many serious injuries or deaths.

Directly? Perhaps not. Indirectly? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY yes. Again, in poor conditions safety is directly and massively negatively impacted by anyone not working as a system with other drivers. In good weather, one person braking will cause a wave of braking events behind them until enough time and distance can absorb it. Each braking event progressively increases in intensity near the head, then reaches equilibrium at some point and eventually tapers off. This is why traffic will sometimes come to a standstill on a freeway and then free up for an "unknown" reason. What happens when eventually the available friction is less than the requirement, AND there is no option to avoid a collision because there's walls on both sides? You know what has more friction than black ice? Vehicles smashing into the walls and each other because someone slowed down too much for the chain of vehicles behind them to counter. So while the first person at the head slowing down didn't directly cause the pileup, that action caused a chain reaction that did.

Moral of the story, if you're going to slow down before icy overpasses, stay home instead.

As slow as possible, as fast as necessary.

A little momentum is your friend, too much is your enemy. Driving on ice it as limited a traction surface as there is, but the same rules apply on it as for other limited traction surfaces like dirt, mud or sand.

Bingo. Sounds like experience talking.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

So, don't slow down, but go as slow as possible...

 

[Brains]

So, don't slow down, but go as slow as possible...

If you’re on two wheels and you see a bunch of sand completely covering the road, are you going to grab a hand and foot full of brake? Are you going to drag a knee?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

If you’re on two wheels and you see a bunch of sand completely covering the road, are you going to grab a hand and foot full of brake? Are you going to drag a knee?

If I see it, I'd try to slow before hitting it, but would release the brakes before I got onto it.
Just like slowing down "before" you get to a bridge, during icy conditions.

 

[innominate]

I've driven on snow before. I'm fine with that. I'm not sure about ice. I've avoided it for the most part. It's not the same situation but after a thaw in north Louisiana I finally got on the road. I was coming up to a section of hwy covered by a 4 lane overpass. I could see a section of ice ~30'. I lined up to hit it straight, let off the gas and stepped on the clutch. Over that short section the rear stepped out a few inches before I hit road again. I could be wrong but imo unless you have chains or studded tires you're in for a ride when you hit ice.

 

[cycleguy2300]

So, don't slow down, but go as slow as possible...

Generally, yes.

Drive slow enough you don't need to slow down for suprises.

When I race out in the desert, I go fast enough I overrun my sight lines. I have the luxury of a sight lap at times and a list of major hazards but if I totally miss something and have to wait to see it to avoid it or stop I am fucked.

Driving on ice is a lot like that. Take your indicated speed and multiply it by 3x to 5x to get your "stopping distance" 20mph on ice is closer to doing between 60 or 100 normally.

My point is you can over drive your sight lines and control ability very quickly on limited traction surfaces.

Drive only as fast as you need to, so you have momentum on obstacles, and otherwise as slowly as is reasonable.

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[Coiled]

2013 Highlander V6 FWD. So low on the trim level, it doesn't even rank.

Between Monday afternoon and Tuesday evening I drove @ 160 miles with just a couple OH MYs, but no problems.

 

[Texasgordo]

Work truck has dual 120 gallon tanks that had anti-gel added to them. I would let it run for around a hour each day to charge the batteries and defrost the windshield. It was my daily routine from Sunday until Thursday.


Personal pickup didn't get any anti-gel in the fuel tank but I did let it run for a while each day. I didn't go anywhere since it's a 2WD and everything was closed.

 

[Brains]

If I see it, I'd try to slow before hitting it, but would release the brakes before I got onto it.
Just like slowing down "before" you get to a bridge, during icy conditions.

Exactly. And if you have a car 40 feet off your back tire? You’ll make the mental choice about whether they can slow with you rather than plowing over you, right?

This is the lesson I learned decades back, and it applies equally on any surface.

 

[oldag]

Please stay home in icy conditions.

oldag: One is always in control of their vehicle. If they are not, they should not be behind the wheel of it. I drove up to DFW in ice the day of, and home to the Houston area from DFW after the big pileup, also in snow and icy conditions. There was a fair amount of black ice that I drove on. I guess I must have died and my ghost is posting?
cvgunman: My driving is not based on theory, it's based on training and experience. The crown of a road is not a constant either, and a driver should be expected to read that (and use to their advantage) accordingly.

So while you were on the black ice, you could have executed a right turn? Made an emergency lane change? Made an emergency stop?

You may have been at the controls, but you could not control the car. Big difference.

Who said anything about being dead?

 

[Coyote9]

I'm all for it! Hell get two of them Forresters!!! Best way to assure we'll never encounter these conditions again is to be fully prepared for them!!!!

Yep parked my 4wd Silverado and drove the Subaru Forrester without a slip nor slide!

 

[Brains]

So while you were on the black ice, you could have executed a right turn? Made an emergency lane change? Made an emergency stop?

You may have been at the controls, but you could not control the car. Big difference.

Who said anything about being dead?

That is the point that needs to be understood. Knowing what you can or cannot do under the conditions, and driving the car within those boundaries, is what keeps you in control. There are always things you cannot do with your vehicle because it would exceed the available limits.

You really outline the problem with most people's "driving" here:

Q: Could you have executed a right turn?
A: Well, you normally wouldn't make right turns on a freeway overpass, at any speed, in any conditions. So I guess no. Playing to your (I think) intended question of 'can you make a right turn on black ice?' The answer is ... maybe? Each condition is different, and you have to read that as best you can. Can you put a couple wheels on something not black ice? Then yes. Is the black ice able to offer more traction (via sand, tire siping/studding, etc.) than the effects of the sum of other acting forces (gravity, velocity, wind, impacts, etc.)? Then also yes.

Q: Made an emergency lane change?
A: If I don't have my head up my ass, I can nearly eliminate most need to make an emergency lane change while on a slippery overpass. If I use a little common sense, if the need does arise I've thought far enough ahead that it won't impact others around me. That's another huge point that I really want people to grasp. Drive with purpose, especially in inclement conditions. If I "know" an overpass is going to be incredibly slick, my thoughts have very little to with that portion of the roadway. I'm focused on the point past it where I can rely on more traction. I will, very far in advance of that stretch, make sure I do everything in my power to avoid the need to make any adjustments, especially an emergency lane change. So in the mile leading up to the overpass, I'm working to be ahead of any pack of cars, traveling the same speed if not a mph faster, and alone as I go across. It's a lot like a stunt driver jumping school busses. While they are in the air, they cannot significantly alter the course of the vehicle. But in the moments PRIOR, they did everything necessary to keep the vehicle under control. When you learn high performance driving, they instill a similar notion of looking to where you're going, not where you are. If you're looking at the corner you're in, it's simply too late. If you're focusing on the slippery overpass you're already on, it's too late to do anything about it.

Q: Made an emergency stop?
A: Now we're getting closer to the problem. Remember a few posts back when I was talking about driving as a system, rather than a number of individuals doing their own thing? The better question to ask yourself is "will my actions negatively impact others?" This becomes dramatically more relevant as conditions worsen. When it's dry and you slow down the people behind you, it might be a little rude but otherwise not usually too unsafe. In bad conditions, even one person slowing down has the potential to cause a chain reaction that ultimately results in a collision. You didn't mean to do it, you didn't directly do it, but the end result was caused by your action nonetheless. There's usually more than one overpass on a freeway, right? So if you slow down, so does the person behind you, and so on. If the nice, safe distance people are maintaining starts to erode (reaction times alone will cause this, not to mention the other impacts in slippery weather), and eventually someone farther back runs out of space while on an overpass themselves, well physics dictate two cars can't occupy the same space at the same time. Slowing down is fine, as long as it is safe for everyone to do so. But if there's a column of cars, trucks, 18 wheelers somewhat close behind you? Slowing down shortly before that overpass could quite literally kill someone.

Yeah, now I know some of y'all will go off the deep end and be all like "ERMAGERD !! HE'SH SHAYING WE CANNTT SLERR DERN ON DA FREEEWAYSSS WEN THURRS BLUCK EYEZZZ !!!" Congratulations, you can't find the point at the end of a needle. You can obviously slow down, gracefully and gradually where it is safe to do so, at a rate that considers the others on the road. Hell, if we could get people to do that one thing - consider others - accident rates would plummet and traffic would flow so much better. You want to approach at the speed you feel comfortable, and you want to time that speed adjustment where it considers those behind you. Do you think the 18 wheeler a quarter mile back can drop 10 mph as quickly as you can right when you approach that overpass? The car between you and him likely can, but you could inadvertently put that dude in a pretty bad spot. So you gradually drop 10 mph without using the brakes, well in advance. Most everyone would have no problem coasting down at the same rate when the roads are slick.

I get it, nobody that's your typical point a to b type driver will ever take any of this and think about how it works. They just want to feel right, feel they're awesome behind the wheel, and feel they're the safest person on the road. Those same people are often the ones who hit the brakes when they feel the tires slip on the overpass, and call their insurance company a few minutes later. I wish everyone could get some wheel time in a skid car. A car outfitted with swivel casters more or less, designed to be able to lift the car off the regular tires as to remove as much traction as the instructor desires. You'd learn so much and a little "aha!" light would go off.

 

[Texasgordo]

Wut?

 

[Dougw1515]

Day,um!!!! Zackly how many words does it take to describe/mansplain the correct way to drive on ice - an event where, basically, you do nothing???????

 

[Brains]

Day,um!!!! Zackly how many words does it take to describe/mansplain the correct way to drive on ice - an event where, basically, you do nothing???????

As many as it takes?

Do nothing isn't the message either. If you'd like it summed up, best I can do is "think ahead, think behind."