What do you want in a local range

[ZX9RCAM]

I wouldn't mind a shop fan blowing across the shooting bench. I usually go to the range during the hottest part of the day. Bandana wrapped around my brow to be able to see the cross hairs. You can almost pour sweat out the ear muffs.

$200 shop fan. I'm not asking for A.C.....just a little air flow.

I take battery powered fans with me every time I go shooting.

 

[diesel1959]

Nice100 yard indoor range in Conroe.
They have video cameras at the far point of the target area so no spotting scope is required.

This is something I would definitely appreciate. Being stuck in a wheelchair, I wind up mostly at indoor ranges. I'd really like to be able to fire at greater distances than 20-25 yards. Conroe is a ways for me, but I might just have to check it out sometime.

 

[9uc]

500 yds, allow tannerite, allow .50 cal, allow steel core, allow full auto, have an area indoors that can be reserved for events Price should be $10-$15 per person for all day, unlimited gun pass Outdoor ranges seem more laid back. Most of us don't mind a drive for a good range.

Maintain tall berms, steel targets as well as paper, allow vehicles to pull up pretty close to the lines on a first come-first served basis

Since moving back to Texas last year, I have limited my firing to a small indoor range, D Range on Hwy 59, which charges flat rate of $15.00 and you can bring as many guns as you want at no additional charge. The extra cost per gun is about the most ridiculous crap and range rip off I heard since I started firing. I had the best of both worlds while living in Las Vegas. American Shooters, for indoor pistol caliber shooting and Desert Sportsman Rifle Club, a private outdoor only membership club, but no additional daily fee. IIRC, as a Vet, I got the discounted fee of $100 per year. Large high berm bunkers, some 500 feet and they were working on the 1000 one for 50 Cal when I moved. Bunkers were wide enough for parties of 9 to 10 shooters and where you could drive down to the back berm, set up targets the pull vehicle up for safety. Not into the Tannerite stuff as my old brain and reactions to loud explosion has not improved over the past fifty years.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

This is something I would definitely appreciate. Being stuck in a wheelchair, I wind up mostly at indoor ranges. I'd really like to be able to fire at greater distances than 20-25 yards. Conroe is a ways for me, but I might just have to check it out sometime.

I have not been in 3-4 years I don't believe.
I hope it has not gone downhill, it was pretty new when I went.
I hope Ben's comment doesn't mean it's gotten bad.

 

[shortround]

A rifle or pistol or shotgun range should be fun.

Post the range rules and enforce them.

Don't charge an exorbitant price to participate.

Be well.

 

[Moonpie]

Allow off-hand rifle shooting.
Many ranges do not. Seems silly not to.

Allow drawing from leather and firing.
Many ranges do not. Seems silly in this day and age of CCW one can't practice their conceal carry draw.

Do not allow Savage20 on the property.

 

[benenglish]

I hope Ben's comment doesn't mean it's gotten bad.

No. My comment meant that I didn't like it when it was new. The bench areas were too small to actually benchrest a rifle with a proper rear bag, front rest, and front bag. Also, there was a ridiculous amount of air crossflow out at ~25 yards, so much so that the targets were swinging and impossible to use. If I'm shooting at an indoor, 100 yard range, I need either still air or a slow, steady flow headed straight downrange.

You can zero a deer rifle at that range. You can't do high-accuracy testing. That means it serves the needs of 99% of the customers. Only loonies like me would be disappointed.

 

[diesel1959]

Thanks, Ben. :cheers:

 

[benenglish]

Benenglish, those areal pics of that range were great! Did you take those??

I wish! That's a range in France that hosts, every few years, a pistol shoot that I've been promising myself I'll attend for years. I pretty much know I'll never go but I can dream.

That range is Eurostand. For lots of pictures, go here: http://diapo-stel.eurostand-lorraine.com/eurostand/index.html The web site is here: http://www.eurostand-lorraine.fr/

For a moving view from the air:

It's probably expensive to build the baffles since you need so many, ...

Someone who understands commercial construction once told me that there were several million dollars worth of range walls and baffles on that range; that didn't even start on the buildings.

 

[benenglish]

Obviously, I don't expect anything like this to ever be privately built anywhere in the U.S. The economics just don't work out. However, this little tour of the inside of the facility gives us a taste of what shooting is like in countries where firearms are so legally restricted that they become strictly toys for the wealthy.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

No. My comment meant that I didn't like it when it was new. The bench areas were too small to actually benchrest a rifle with a proper rear bag, front rest, and front bag. Also, there was a ridiculous amount of air crossflow out at ~25 yards, so much so that the targets were swinging and impossible to use. If I'm shooting at an indoor, 100 yard range, I need either still air or a slow, steady flow headed straight downrange.

You can zero a deer rifle at that range. You can't do high-accuracy testing. That means it serves the needs of 99% of the customers. Only loonies like me would be disappointed.

To be honest, I don't think I even fired a rifle there.
I can't handle the noise from rifles indoors.
I just thought it looked like a nice setup.

 

[A & P]

Where are you thinking of putting a range in?

Had two options depending on indoor or outdoor. Indoor would be in the Tomball area since that's where we are located. If it was outdoor, I was thinking of north of here but there are already a few ranges (indoor and outdoor) in that direction. Land and neighbors is always the trick. Close enough to draw people in but far enough to not be tied up in court. IF we did outdoor, i'd really like to put in 1000+yds, for myself if no other reason.

As nice as the CMP is (and expensive to build), they don't have steel on the rifle ranges. So even they cannot please everyone all the time. I thought if I did a rifle range, I might have 200,300,600 like many others and then a separate UKD range next to it with steel and change up the placements every week or so. Also though about having shooting towers for testing elevation differences, or maybe just build up a stepped berm to shoot off of. Not sure if it'd be worth the trouble or appreciated, though. Fancy costs money.

 

[A & P]

*A flat fee, no time limit unless people are waiting. CMP has two or three rates: Sunday (higher), daily (unlimited for $30 I think) and hourly ($20 I think). that sounds fair to me. If you want hourly, you have that choice. If you don't want to be stressed watching the clock, then you're expecting to be there longer so a bump for an all day pass....just like parking, car rental, tool rental... I like their model.
*When it comes to indoor ranges I can be in and out. If I stay under a half hour give me a break in the price. Sportsmens outlet charges half. Often I just want to function check a gun and only need a few minutes. I can see them not wanting to charge half hour rates just because then people will argue that 39 minutes was a half hour. Or by my watch it was ... Or you shouldn't charge me for the time it took to get my gun out and load a magazine or whatever. When I rent the range for CHL classes, I pay an hour fee per student (15 students, $150 range fee) even though we are only there 20-30 minutes. Hourly fee is $10 and I pay it. I don't think the half hour thing would be a deal breaker for someone if they liked the rest of the range. Incidentally, if someone is just function checking a gun (like a gunsmith), they make clearing devices that are basically media filled pipes. Maybe we could even have a clearing/function check station that doesn't require the use of a lane.
*If you want me to buy ammo, charge a fair price. If I can buy it retail for $14, why should you buy wholesale and charge me $28
I know that's a money maker for ranges. It's like anything else. Gas at the marina costs a fortune compared to regular pump prices. Popcorn at the movie theater is 100x what it costs to make it. Deer corn in the valley 10 minutes from the lease costs more. Why? Convenience. Incidentally, the prices in our store are VERY fair. $299/1000ct 223? You can hardly find it online for that. People are shocked when they come in and see our prices. We are a small store and beat the big box stores on almost everything. And we are bricks and mortar, not some internet warehouse. I'd guess our business model would be able to extend to a range-based store too.
*Don't charge me to use your ear muffs and scratched up old eye protection.
I'm kind of of the opinion that everyone should own them. If you don't have some, you should buy some. Then you get exactly what you want and take care of them the way you want. I use Wiley X glasses and HL electronic muffs. Not the best. Not the worst by far. That's my choice. But the fact that Lowe's $3 safety glasses and $0.50 foam plugs work too means that there is no excuse for people not to buy/bring their own...IMHO.
*Allow the use of steel and aluminum cased ammo. If you don't then be honest. Its because you are cheap/lazy and expect me to sort my brass for you so you can make more money. This stuff is part of the shooting world, adapt, hire me to sort it later. I would pay $2 extra for no brass restrictions.
It's not about being lazy, but it is about the money. I laugh when ranges say "it's about safety". I tell my customers (when they tell me that), no, it's about the fact that scrap brass is $2.30/lb. Recycled once-fired brass for reloaders is even more than that. I don't mind the "no non-brass" policy in regards to that because their buyers are probably demanding sorted brass so that's their solution. Where it gets sketchy is when you can't pick up your own brass. If I'm shooting new Starline or Lapua brass and I handload, and you tell me I can't pick up my premium brass? I have an issue. By the same token, then you'll get the troll vacuums out there spending 30 minutes sorting through OTHER shooters brass trying to pick out some cases...and they want unlimited range time for a set fee to do it in. When I shoot competition, I tend to just use mixed brass anyway, but I always thought it'd suck if I had premium cases that i intended to reload. Nobody is picking up brass during competition of course.
*I like to test the function of my carry gun by drawing and emptying the carried magazine just once. If you charge by the gun I just got ripped off or the carry piece does not get a true to life test. I am less safe, you are greedy. Also then I need more carry ammo, at a fair price, I will buy it from you.
l never understood the per gun fee. If I have 100 guns and shoot one round through each, why should that cost 100x what it costs to shoot 100 rounds out of one gun??? I can't imagine charging per gun. Per person? Yes. Per hour? Yes. Probably a fee per hour for the first shooter and a reduced fee per person on the same lane...since they're not shooting at the same time anyway. That's the only model that makes sense to me.
*With concealed carry our needs are different and we are not there just for fun.
*Why do you charge me more to shoot a pistol caliber rifle?
l've never heard of this. That's crazy.
*We never intend to shoot your floor, ceiling, walls, or the pulley system. But it will happen. Live with it. We get no pleasure from mistakes.
l've seen some scary stuff. Guys shooting shotguns that hit the ceiling just 10 yards in front of them. Safety is paramount. If you cannot get a round to go to the trap/berm, you need to play lasertag instead. Having said that, accidents do happen. But as many people will say, there is no such thing as an accident. Negligence? Yes. Accidents? No. Having said that, when I was at the NRAs indoor 50yd range, the RO stopped us because when my nephew went to shoot, it didn't occur to me that he is half my height and from his perspective, and shooting at only 7 yards, his rounds were probably hitting the ceiling. I didn't think to check his perspective. The target was hung for my shooting position. The RO was super cool about it, but it made sense when he said it. So that does happen...but dumbasses blasting the ceiling and then laughing about it (which I've seen) is just vandalism.
*Explain to your Range Officers that we don't care what great shots they were, how many VC they killed, and that they already know everything. Have them watch out for safety.

Good feedback. Thanks.

 

[A & P]

Allow off-hand rifle shooting.
Many ranges do not. Seems silly not to.
That's crazy. Off hand shooting is on for sure. Check.
Allow drawing from leather and firing.
Many ranges do not. Seems silly in this day and age of CCW one can't practice their conceal carry draw.
Totally agree. But you'd have to be checked out on it. I teach CHL classes and many people can barely shoot. I can't imagine watching them draw. We offer follow on classes but not many people do it. They think they got their CHL so they are Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon now. It's sad but true. So drawing from holster? It's in. Check.
Do not allow Savage20 on the property.
That's an easy one. No Savage20? Check.

What else?

As for the other comments...

No nail salons. We owned a big hair salon with a small day spa and the acetone stinks. Rather smell burnt powder.
Coffee for sure. I live on it.
Cucumber water is a maybe. Women shooters are a growing interest. Maybe some potpourri too. Have some tvs with Sportsman Channel and some others with Oprah? Okay. Maybe not.


I like the target cameras. One poster mentioned being handicap so that's a cool option for all, but especially to aid some shooters who might need it.

Air to blow across shooting line is kind of a neat idea if the line is covered. Not sure if that frenchie range had cots or bed or what was that the guys were laying on? If you're shooting prone, get in the dirt. Do it right. Bring a shooting mat if you're wearing your Sunday's best.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Aahhhhhhh, my eyes, my eyes!

Please, don't post in red if you want it to be read.

 

[benenglish]

Not sure if that frenchie range had cots or bed or what was that the guys were laying on?

That was a range that was laid out by people who thought all shooting would be done from benches. They have a couple of different designs, some like tables and some t-shaped.

The land was graded for shooters using benches. If you get on the ground, you can't see the targets. But after the range was built, the hazards to the facilities of getting heavy equipment in there to change the slope of the land were a problem. Add to that, drainage problems would arise due to any changes made. The bottom line is that they were effectively stuck with what they had. The only solution was to elevate the shooters.

Even expensive ranges can make dumb design mistakes.

I've been forced to shoot lying down on tabletops and I hate it. Any range that allows prone shooting needs the land contoured correctly. That seems like a simple concept but there are way, way too many ranges that were built by people who could not execute on the idea.

 

[Mongo]

I'm also in a wheel chair so dittos on the handicap stuff. As for people shooting up the range equipment, fuckem if they do they need to pay for the damage, I'm sorry but if you are not careful enough then you should not be shooting, this assumes a properly designed range equipment.

 

[benenglish]

If you want me to buy ammo, charge a fair price. ... I'd guess our business model would be able to extend to a range-based store too.

That's fair.

I would note, however, that it all depends on the business model. For upscale ranges, I think the Tamiami ranges were the first to install themselves in high-rent shopping malls and even charge reasonable lane rentals BUT then require the use of totally non-lead ammo. Since nobody ever had the stuff, everybody had to buy at the range at ridiculous prices. They were enormously profitable until they had other (not range related) issues that shut them down.

But the fact that Lowe's $3 safety glasses and $0.50 foam plugs work too means that there is no excuse for people not to buy/bring their own...IMHO.

IMO, having just a couple of pairs of cheap loaner glasses is probably a good idea. "All our loaners are out on the range at the moment and, unfortunately, you can't shoot without some sort of eye protection. If you'll look on the rack behind you..."

As for ears, those single packs of E.A.R. plugs work far better than most muffs and no range should ever run out. At $1 a set, they are fantastic profit centers based on a dollar-per-square-foot analysis.

I don't mind the "no non-brass" policy in regards to that because their buyers are probably demanding sorted brass so that's their solution.

It's easy to pick out steel cases with a magnet. I wonder if there's such a thing as an automated way to sort aluminum from brass? If so, some ROI study is in order. Some non-reloaders would shoot a lot more if they were allowed to use the cheap stuff. More shooters plus sorted aluminum and steel to also sell to recyclers might actually be worth additional investment. Or not. I just don't know.

If I'm shooting new Starline or Lapua brass and I handload, and you tell me I can't pick up my premium brass? I have an issue.

Deal-breaker. I won't go to any range like that.

...the troll vacuums out there spending 30 minutes sorting through OTHER shooters brass trying to pick out some cases...

People like that should be kicked out. I'm serious. I've turned around and walked to the trash can to dispose of a target, turned back around, and been greeted with the sight of the guy in the lane next to me down on his knees in MY lane, furiously picking up all MY brass. That should be grounds for expulsion.

*Explain to your Range Officers that we don't care...

To be fair, good RSOs are almost never noticed but they are right there when something has the potential to go wrong. The RSOs that we notice are the incompetent kids and the guys my age who seem to have the job just so they can hang around shooting all day...and make a nuisance of themselves. I've seen a few get off on the power trip aspect; those guys should be identified and weeded out immediately. (Some of the worst offenders are ex-military who think they can run a firing line of paying customers at a commercial range the same way they ordered people around while in uniform. The results are often not pretty and will drive away customers.)

Beyond that, though, I have no idea how to actually find RSOs with not just the certification but also the people skills to do the job. People with the proper skill set (to start: can understand technical stuff, act decisively when required, de-escalate hurt feelings, teach a little, comfort a lot, etc.) can usually make a lot more money doing something else.

Good luck on finding good RSOs.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

To be fair, RSOs have to presume that everyone shooting has no clue what they are doing.
A "little" interaction helps them find the potential problem areas quicker.





(flame suit on)

 

[benenglish]

Valid approach, Cam. No flames from me.