What have you done to your vehicle lately?

[grasshopperglock]

Question for you SBC guys.
I’ve got a 99 Suburban with a Gen 1 350. Great motor and it will likely outlive me.

Let’s say I wanted to freshen up the motor. I’d love to drop in a 383 stoker crate motor, like this;
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/small-block-ht-383e http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/small-block-ht-383e

With a custom tune, they make ridiculous, reliable power:
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/engine/0713tr-1996-chevy-truck/

What would you guys do/recommend?


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Upgrade to an LS1. The old small blocks were cool. Stroked out it'll run like a scared cat. Then there's the modern. The LS1 in its basic form already has parts that'll you'd considered hotrodded and exotic. Cross bolt main alloy block, roller lifters, cylinder heads with gigantic ports, better cooling. It also weighs about 100# less then an old SBC. The transmissions will fit either motor.

All in a package you can buy used for $500. Buck for buck. The LS1 is a superior motor and responds a lot better to improvements.

Torque was higher on the older motor because of the weight of the rotating assembly. Crank, rods, pistons, and small port heads. It doesn't rev as fast. The LS1 has less bottom end torque but it has a lighter rotating assembly and breaths better. It'll rev faster and screams doing it...using 87 octane.

Embrace the modern. LS1.

 

[pronstar]

Upgrade to an LS1. The old small blocks were cool. Stroked out it'll run like a scared cat. Then there's the modern. The LS1 in its basic form already has parts that'll you'd considered hotrodded and exotic. Cross bolt main alloy block, roller lifters, cylinder heads with gigantic ports, better cooling. It also weighs about 100# less then an old SBC. The transmissions will fit either motor.

All in a package you can buy used for $500. Buck for buck. The LS1 is a superior motor and responds a lot better to improvements.

Torque was higher on the older motor because of the weight of the rotating assembly. Crank, rods, pistons, and small port heads. It doesn't rev as fast. The LS1 has less bottom end torque but it has a lighter rotating assembly and breaths better. It'll rev faster and screams doing it...using 87 octane.

Embrace the modern. LS1.

The HT383e I ljnked to is plug and play, will actually run with the oem computer in my Suburban.

Is an LS motor swap as easy to do?
Wil all of my accessories like rear AC be as easy to make work?

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[grasshopperglock]

The HT383e I ljnked to is plug and play, will actually run with the oem computer in my Suburban.

Is an LS motor swap as easy to do?
Wil all of my accessories like rear AC be as easy to make work?

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There's a neighbor around the corner that sticks LS1s in Nissan 240. Swap motor mounts. Sticking it in the suburban won't be problem. It has a different fan belt and the A.C. compressor might need to be switched to the an AC compressor that comes on the LS1. Most folks buy the truck motors. There's always a wrecked suburban.

Research the transmission. Some take an adaptor flywheel. Research the motor mounts. See if the ls1 mounts fit the 99' cross member. If not. They sell swap mounts. The LS1 transmission has a bell housing that 360° and has more bolts. The older transmission has bolts along the top with a big gap at the bottom. There's a tin cover that covers the toque converter. The newer style transmissions are basically built with a stronger connection to the motor. Make sure the drive shaft is the right length. The older one is probably shorter. The newer factory that came with the ls1 will probably fit.

The heater hoses are in different place between the SBC and LS1. Buy longer hose.

ECM with a conversion harness. They have plug and play.

 

[Brains]

It really depends on what you're wanting. The LS (or more accurately, the Gen-III, Gen-IV, and Gen-V small block platform) is significantly improved over the Gen-I SBC (or Gen-II in the LT1/4 Vette/Camaro) platform. You can most certainly swap, but you're looking at a lot more work and money. More than I'd feel the truck is worth vs. upgrading to a newer one.

1. Conversion motor mounts
2. New exhaust from the manifolds rearward to the mid-section.
3. Flexplate spacer (The Gen-III flexplate sits closer to the engine than the SBC)
4. New PCM, harness (either aftermarket, or you can modify a junkyard harness to be stand-alone)
5. Additional sensors: MAF and O2 sensors (MAF is technically optional, but recommended).
6. PCM tune to match the new configuration
7. New (or junkyard included) accessories (Water pump, Alternator, Power Steering Pump, A/C compressor)
8. New intake ductwork
9. New radiator hoses
10. New power steering hoses
11. New A/C lines, evac, flush and fill of the system
12. Revised electrical wiring (to power the PCM, hook up the alternator, starter, etc.)

Probably a host of other little odds and ends I'm not thinking of at the moment.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Found a picture of a 2001 LS1 in a 1994 truck.

Pretty pretty.

 

[pronstar]

Yeah I think a plug and play crate sounds a lot easier. The motor costs more, but lower level of effort to make it all work.

I’m wondering if a local shop can freshen up my existing for considerably less than the cost of a crate...I can get a 350 plug and play crate for half the cost, but if I’m gonna put the same R&R work into it then I’ll pay to get more power


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[Brains]

Yeah I think a plug and play crate nite sounds a lot easier. The motor costs more, but lower level of effort to make it all work.

I’m wondering if a local shop can freshen up my existing for considerably less than the cost of a crate...I can get a 350 plug and play crate for half the cost, but if I’m gonna put the same R&R work into it then I’ll pay to get more power

It depends, and could go either way depending on options.

 

[TheDan]

I’m wondering if a local shop can freshen up my existing for considerably less than the cost of a crate...

Crate engines seem pricey to me. Bound to be cheaper to do a basic rebuild on your block but with some high compression pistons and new cam.

 

[grasshopperglock]

With the cost of rebuilding one... pistons, rings, bearings. Then boring, turning the crank journals, seals, having the assembly balanced. Resurfacing the heads. Gaskets, sealant, tools. Having the block acid dipped to clean.

Then extra stuff. Like a hotter cam. New lifters, rocker arms, checking push rods to make sure they're straight. Indexing the cam. Then hoping you picked the right cam. A cam that won't make it run like a dog. Breaking in said cam.

New oil pump. New water pump. Cleaned radiator. ( you don't want a rebuilt engine getting hot)


A brand new factory crate motor is a bargain.

 

[pronstar]

Crate engines seem pricey to me. Bound to be cheaper to do a basic rebuild on your block but with some high compression pistons and new cam.

The thing I like about a crate from GMPP is that it’s a known quantity. “Buy once, cry once”. Plus a warranty backed by GM.

I’d trust a reputable local builder, but I don’t know any in DFW...there are guys I trust in CA and AZ but shipping a motor ain’t cheap.

The low-end grunt of a 383 stroker sounds right up my ally


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[Brains]

Another thing to consider.

A basic assembled 383 longblock can be had for less than 3 grand. A basic longblock with a warranty can be had for maybe 3500-4000. You could sell your stock longblock for a couple hundred, so you're in for 3-4 grand for a weekend project.

Compare this to freshening up your motor with a Scat or Eagle 383 rotating assembly, and you're at about $750 plus in parts another $100 to $150 for gaskets, plus probably a grand to the machine shop. You're just about 2 grand all in, with a significant amount of downtime where you'll be without the vehicle. If you don't have alternate transportation, getting around can add to your costs and frustration.

 

[pronstar]

Another thing to consider.

A basic assembled 383 longblock can be had for less than 3 grand. A basic longblock with a warranty can be had for maybe 3500-4000. You could sell your stock longblock for a couple hundred, so you're in for 3-4 grand for a weekend project.

Compare this to freshening up your motor with a Scat or Eagle 383 rotating assembly, and you're at about $750 plus in parts another $100 to $150 for gaskets, plus probably a grand to the machine shop. You're just about 2 grand all in, with a significant amount of downtime where you'll be without the vehicle. If you don't have alternate transportation, getting around can add to your costs and frustration.

I hear ya.
The drop in GMPP 383 is about $5k with a warranty.

Uses all of my existing parts except the intake manifold, it comes with a dual-plane.

Of course, I’d also need to build up my 4L60E to handle the torque. Probably just purchase one from a reputable builder for around $1700.

I’ve got a factory-spec rebuild on mine, but it wasn’t designed to handle 500 lb-ft of torque.


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[grasshopperglock]

I bought a 4L65 from these guys. What makes it a '65' instead of a 4l60. It has some corvette specific parts with some other heavy duty parts that replace known to be weaker parts in other/factory versions.

They delivered straight to my door. I haven't had any problems with their rebuilt stuff.


http://www.monstertransmission.com

 

[grasshopperglock]

Buy one of these too. Protect the investment. The factory transmission filter in the pan isn't really worth anything. I have one installed. Make sure you clean the living hell out of the transmission lines. Take them off. Spray carb cleaner down them. Drain it out. Keep doing it until it comes out clean. Compressed air comes in handy.

https://www.amazon.com/58964-Magnet...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0014BCFC0

 

[pronstar]

Buy one of these too. Protect the investment. The factory transmission filter in the pan isn't really worth anything. I have one installed. Make sure you clean the living hell out of the transmission lines. Take them off. Spray carb cleaner down them. Drain it out. Keep doing it until it comes out clean. Compressed air comes in handy.

https://www.amazon.com/58964-Magnet...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0014BCFC0

Could I just plumb it into a line to the tranny cooler?


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[grasshopperglock]

Could I just plumb it into a line to the tranny cooler?


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Yes. Make sure to flush out the cooler too. The transmission almost needs to be sterile. Especially if you laying down the big bucks. Clean, clean, clean. All of it.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Could I just plumb it into a line to the tranny cooler?


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I'm wondering if your ride doesn't already have a 4l65e. They installed them trucks. You'd figure a suburban would have it.

http://www.monstertransmission.com/4L60E4L65E-Transmission-Heavy-Duty-2WD_p_5073.html#.WutqUDVOkv4

 

[ZX9RCAM]

They charge $700 for $1000 worth of warranty coverage?

 

[grasshopperglock]

They charge $700 for $1000 worth of warranty coverage?

I read that as an extended warranty covering the labor of a shop you have install it. Warranty on fluid is weird. I wouldn't check that box.

They got a lot more options then I bought from them. They didn't have all the drop down boxes.

 

[Brains]

There's no appreciable difference between a 4L60e and a 4L65e. 4 vs 5 pinion planetary which doesn't often fail anyway, and they upgraded the sun shell which only occasionally would crack at the spline area. The same problems will crop up in either variant, and that is always going to be the high gear clutch pack (3rd and 4th gears). The problem is inherent with the design - the high gear clutch is all the way in the bottom of the drum, and its fluid apply path is measured in light years. Fluid has to pass from the pump to the valve body, to the accumulator, back to the valve body, back to the pump, across to the spinning input shaft, all the way down to the bottom of the drum, and finally compress the pack. It's a long route with several areas where you're combatting leaks and centripetal force. That's generally why these transmissions live long lives in trucks, but short lives in modified applications - they hate high RPM shifts into 3rd. Builders who can make them live in relatively high RPM and high horsepower applications are walking a very fine line between pressure and fluid timing. Most of these transmissions fail the high gear pack because of tie-up or less often a flare. When the 2-3 shift happens, the 2/4 band is in the process of releasing while the 3/4 clutch is applying. If the band releases too early, you get a flare - the transmission basically freewheels and the engine RPM surges. Then the high gear pack applies but the RPM is too severe to overcome, and the clutch pack burns up trying to stop the now rapidly spinning planetary. The opposite happens when the band releases too late - the band is still holding while the clutch is applying, and their motion is opposing. One of them has to win, and the band has a lot more friction capability (it wraps around the much larger reverse input drum). Part of this timing is electrical, but most of it is hydraulic. The trans builder pretty much tries to optimize it for worst-case (high rpm full throttle) and banks on the friction properties of the band vs. the high gear pack to handle less demanding conditions.

Long story short - if you don't increase your 2/3 shift RPM over 6000 RPM it'll probably live a long life. If you never shift wide open throttle into 3rd, it'll probably last forever.

ETA - Wife ran a 4L60e (built) in her T76 turbocharged 6.1L 4th gen Camaro for years, but it took a few tries to get it right.