What have you done to your vehicle lately?

[grasshopperglock]

Corvette servo sounds better then farm truck get a shift. You're taking the romance out. Lol

 

[Brains]

Corvette servo sounds better then farm truck get a shift. You're taking the romance out. Lol

I have no idea what you were trying to say, but the Corvette servo is usually unnecessary in a truck application. Its only purpose is to provide a harder 2nd gear apply.

 

[SidewaysTA]

There's no appreciable difference between a 4L60e and a 4L65e. 4 vs 5 pinion planetary which doesn't often fail anyway, and they upgraded the sun shell which only occasionally would crack at the spline area. The same problems will crop up in either variant, and that is always going to be the high gear clutch pack (3rd and 4th gears). The problem is inherent with the design - the high gear clutch is all the way in the bottom of the drum, and its fluid apply path is measured in light years. Fluid has to pass from the pump to the valve body, to the accumulator, back to the valve body, back to the pump, across to the spinning input shaft, all the way down to the bottom of the drum, and finally compress the pack. It's a long route with several areas where you're combatting leaks and centripetal force. That's generally why these transmissions live long lives in trucks, but short lives in modified applications - they hate high RPM shifts into 3rd. Builders who can make them live in relatively high RPM and high horsepower applications are walking a very fine line between pressure and fluid timing. Most of these transmissions fail the high gear pack because of tie-up or less often a flare. When the 2-3 shift happens, the 2/4 band is in the process of releasing while the 3/4 clutch is applying. If the band releases too early, you get a flare - the transmission basically freewheels and the engine RPM surges. Then the high gear pack applies but the RPM is too severe to overcome, and the clutch pack burns up trying to stop the now rapidly spinning planetary. The opposite happens when the band releases too late - the band is still holding while the clutch is applying, and their motion is opposing. One of them has to win, and the band has a lot more friction capability (it wraps around the much larger reverse input drum). Part of this timing is electrical, but most of it is hydraulic. The trans builder pretty much tries to optimize it for worst-case (high rpm full throttle) and banks on the friction properties of the band vs. the high gear pack to handle less demanding conditions.

Long story short - if you don't increase your 2/3 shift RPM over 6000 RPM it'll probably live a long life. If you never shift wide open throttle into 3rd, it'll probably last forever.

ETA - Wife ran a 4L60e (built) in her T76 turbocharged 6.1L 4th gen Camaro for years, but it took a few tries to get it right.

Yeah, what he said. LOL

"When" my 60 gives up the ghost, that will be my next project, to rebuild/improve it myself. I've already started acquiring parts and tools just for the occasion.

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[ZX9RCAM]

I had a shift kit in my 74 400 SB Impala, nice 2nd gear scratch, considering it was a 2dr lead sled.

 

[Brains]

Yeah, what he said. LOL

"When" my 60 gives up the ghost, that will be my next project, to rebuild/improve it myself. I've already started acquiring parts and tools just for the occasion.

Too bad I gave away all of mine From memory:

Tranny stand: Use anything about knee high with a hole in it.
Sealing ring installer: Definitely have to have this
Contraption to compress clutch pack so you can install the retaining ring

 

[grasshopperglock]

I had a shift kit in my 74 400 SB Impala, nice 2nd gear scratch, considering it was a 2dr lead sled.

Modern stuff. Adjust it in the ECM using a tuner. I get a third gear scratch on the highway on ramp. You can increase the time and pressure. Keep it in....for a better try at words. In haul a$$ mode. Another 'table' programmed into the ecu.

 

[SidewaysTA]

Too bad I gave away all of mine From memory:

Tranny stand: Use anything about knee high with a hole in it.
Sealing ring installer: Definitely have to have this
Contraption to compress clutch pack so you can install the retaining ring

Yeah, the low/reverse piston return spring compressor.

I almost had a smart drum setup real cheap but the guy just sold it right before me.

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[grasshopperglock]

Too bad I gave away all of mine From memory:

Tranny stand: Use anything about knee high with a hole in it.
Sealing ring installer: Definitely have to have this
Contraption to compress clutch pack so you can install the retaining ring

C-Clamps to compress the clutch pack. You know you've tried it. That press isn't cheap. Nice but not cheap.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Modern stuff. Adjust it in the ECM using a tuner. I get a third gear scratch on the highway on ramp. You can increase the time and pressure. Keep it in....for a better try at words. In haul a$$ mode. Another 'table' programmed into the ecu.

Yeah, I'm talking old school.
Actually in the 70s.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Yeah, I'm talking old school.
Actually in the 70s.

Stick a section of broom stick behind the second gear servo. There will be a sping. Replace it with the stick. There's a governor of the transmission shift points. Two metal flaps rotate around a metal shaft. To control shift timing. Drill a hole in both sides of the metal flaps. Drilling makes sure it stays balance. The lighter the weight, the higher the shift. You can adjust the max rpm. Other then that, a stall converter and a B&M shift kit it. Then it'll be all it can be.

 

[Brains]

Oh on your rebuild, use factory frictions. Don't mess with any exotic materials. Made that mistake by installing a kevlar 2/4 band. Way too sticky, combined with the valve body modifications and a large billet servo it applied WAY too hard. Even with a loose converter the shift was firm and the wife eventually ripped the rivets right out of it. Went back with a used factory band and it lived until she sold the car. You can build up the clutch packs though, if you have enough clearance. Try to get it close to the tight end of the range, but not too tight - it won't apply. I've surfaced the plates between clutches with sandpaper to give them a little more holding power, but don't overdo it. If you cut teeth in those plates, they'll wear down your frictions in no time.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

. To control shift timing. Drill a hole in both sides of the metal flaps. Drilling makes sure it stays balance. The lighter the weight, the higher the shift. You can adjust the max rpm. Other then that, a stall converter and a B&M shift kit it. Then it'll be all it can be.

That's what I did.
I got this car in 76 when I graduated high school, replaced it in 79 with a new turbo mustang.
It's loooong gone...

 

[Brains]

C-Clamps to compress the clutch pack. You know you've tried it. That press isn't cheap. Nice but not cheap.

No, I built a press to do it right. Welded up a compression ring to press down evenly, with a threaded rod, couple plates, and a nut.

 

[SidewaysTA]

Oh on your rebuild, use factory frictions. Don't mess with any exotic materials. Made that mistake by installing a kevlar 2/4 band. Way too sticky, combined with the valve body modifications and a large billet servo it applied WAY too hard. Even with a loose converter the shift was firm and the wife eventually ripped the rivets right out of it. Went back with a used factory band and it lived until she sold the car. You can build up the clutch packs though, if you have enough clearance. Try to get it close to the tight end of the range, but not too tight - it won't apply. I've surfaced the plates between clutches with sandpaper to give them a little more holding power, but don't overdo it. If you cut teeth in those plates, they'll wear down your frictions in no time.

What about using a wide band?

So far I haven't acquired any frictions, just some hard parts, mainly just stuff I found deals on.

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[Brains]

What about using a wide band?

So far I haven't acquired any frictions, just some hard parts, mainly just stuff I found deals on.

Wider band would probably be ok, but it isn't really needed. That band literally never fails (especially if you've done other supporting modifications like a larger servo, valve body mods to increase fluid volume, etc.)

 

[grasshopperglock]

No, I built a press to do it right. Welded up a compression ring to press down evenly, with a threaded rod, couple plates, and a nut.

There's a waver spring and much thicker plates. Compressing it evenly isn't bad. It's not that much crush until the lock ring can come out or go in. It's cool you built some press.

 

[grasshopperglock]

I'm gonna get the camaro inspected. Then I'm going to bring it home and cut the mufflers off. Long tube headers through high flow converters. No mufflers. I wanna hear it.

Ill buy some axle back exhaust sooner or later. Probably when it needs inspection again.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Ha, I bet the neighbors will appreciate that...

 

[grasshopperglock]

Ha, I bet the neighbors will appreciate that...

Which ones? The ones with the bass speakers. Or the import car with a fake muffler? Sport bikes are the worse. Still quieter then the police sirens. Better yet, It's not an open exhaust Harley so we're good.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Yeah, I had a Suzuki 1000 in the 80s, the header had a removable baffle. All that held it in was one little bolt.
I would remove it upon occasion, instant open header.