What is Bill McCraven's problem with campus carry?

[Shotgun Jeremy]

I think you are stupid. And, your positions are immoral and demonstrate a depth of ignorance and cowardice. Shame on you.

http://media.giphy.com/media/1qPwVNmlcrr9u/200w.gif

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Rights are constants, like gravity, and unable to be changed by men (only protected or infringed).

Considering that FACT, I give exactly two shits what some UT chancellor thinks. I only care what the government will try to enforce by force.

I am appreciative of his service to his country, but now that he's here in Texas he needs to sit down and close his pie hole so more idiotic bullshit stops coming out.

 

[Brojon]

He ran over to the Ted Cruz thread to bad mouth him and conservatives in general. Always wonder why folks who seem to hate everything about Texas continue to live here....

You know that old saying about "don't sh*t where you sleep"?
These people don't get that and when they foul their nest they move on to another location.

 

[Army 1911]

I would like someone to ask him if he ever took an oath to defend the Constitution and if so did it have an expiration date on it. I know mine didn't.

 

[majormadmax]

He ran over to the Ted Cruz thread to bad mouth him and conservatives in general. Always wonder why folks who seem to hate everything about Texas continue to live here....

Easiest just to add him to your 'ignore' list and move on...

 

[satx78247]

Army1911,

The only way that you can be released from your oath is by direct order of the CiC or his/her designated representative.

Even then, I wonder if you are really released???

yours, satx

 

[Wabbit69]

I did not say that I was not keenly aware of my situation and surroundings, just that I never felt the need to be armed going to and from campus. The area around UH is a scary place to be late at night and there are bad people everywhere, but I felt safe on campus.

If a student does not feel safe on the campus he or she is attending, then maybe they need to find another campus...packing a handgun or toting an AR is not going to make it any safer for anybody, and indeed may make it less safe for everybody...

Some folk's choice of institution of higher education is limited by course offerings, in-state/in-district tuition, as well as other factors.

Also, I would like to point out that college campuses are always magnets for crime, largely due to the high population of individuals without substantial "life-experience", back-packs full of gadgets, as well as a proclivity of a portion of the population to imbibe in unlawful substances. The only other places that tend to attract comparable crime rates are places where the economy is dominated by tourism/travel and/or illegal narcotics.

Looking at my e-mail (I am a staff member at a higher education institution in Austin) there have been three aggravated assaults/robberies on or near campus in the past two months.

Then, there is the issue of a college campus being a prime "high-value soft-target" for a lunatic or terrorist, which you have already alluded referring to the event of August 1966.

Having said that, I agree with you in that one SHOULD not feel the need to be armed while attending college. If the world were a perfect place, my students would all be riding back and forth to class on their unicorns singing along to Kumbaya on their MP3's with nary a worry. However, the world is NOT a perfect place. After all, isn't that why YOU carry a gun? Evil exists. Bad people hurt good people. Sometimes, good people get thing sideways and hurt others. Always has been that way, always will be that way, and no amount of legislation will ever change that.

I work mostly with graduate students. It this field of study, of the ones that are US citizens (sadly, only about half of them), most of them tend to lean toward the "red" side of the political spectrum. Out of the 15 students I've got working with me, none of them have a CHL that I know of. It's simply not a priority for most kids still figuring out what they want to do with their lives. Based on that observation, I can say with absolute confidence that notion of an increased risk of campus violence due to a student with a CHL is so ridiculously low that it is unfounded and baseless. My observation is confirmed by the lack of events in Oregon, Idaho, and other states since they've voted to allow campus carry.

Finally, you ignore the issue of staff and faculty. As a staff member, I am responsible for my student's safety. Should the unthinkable ever happen, whether it be a dispute over academic standards, affairs of the heart (such as a dispute over the status of a relationship as "open"), mental problems, or politically motivated, state law currently prohibits me from protecting my students with all of the tools that I am trained and proficient to use. Time and time again, an analysis of every single mass-shooting incident indicates the single biggest factor affecting the casualty rate is the time it takes for an individual to effectively engage the shooter, followed by the availability of victims.

Again, I agree that I SHOULD not feel the need to be armed on-campus. Considering the aformentioned, I don't believe it's that bad of an idea. It appears that most of the folks on this forum, the Texas Legislature, Governor, and voters agree with me.

 

[Charlie]

Some folk's choice of institution of higher education is limited by course offerings, in-state/in-district tuition, as well as other factors.

Also, I would like to point out that college campuses are always magnets for crime, largely due to the high population of individuals without substantial "life-experience", back-packs full of gadgets, as well as a proclivity of a portion of the population to imbibe in unlawful substances. The only other places that tend to attract comparable crime rates are places where the economy is dominated by tourism/travel and/or illegal narcotics.

Looking at my e-mail (I am a staff member at a higher education institution in Austin) there have been three aggravated assaults/robberies on or near campus in the past two months.

Then, there is the issue of a college campus being a prime "high-value soft-target" for a lunatic or terrorist, which you have already alluded referring to the event of August 1966.

Having said that, I agree with you in that one SHOULD not feel the need to be armed while attending college. If the world were a perfect place, my students would all be riding back and forth to class on their unicorns singing along to Kumbaya on their MP3's with nary a worry. However, the world is NOT a perfect place. After all, isn't that why YOU carry a gun? Evil exists. Bad people hurt good people. Sometimes, good people get thing sideways and hurt others. Always has been that way, always will be that way, and no amount of legislation will ever change that.

I work mostly with graduate students. It this field of study, of the ones that are US citizens (sadly, only about half of them), most of them tend to lean toward the "red" side of the political spectrum. Out of the 15 students I've got working with me, none of them have a CHL that I know of. It's simply not a priority for most kids still figuring out what they want to do with their lives. Based on that observation, I can say with absolute confidence that notion of an increased risk of campus violence due to a student with a CHL is so ridiculously low that it is unfounded and baseless. My observation is confirmed by the lack of events in Oregon, Idaho, and other states since they've voted to allow campus carry.

Finally, you ignore the issue of staff and faculty. As a staff member, I am responsible for my student's safety. Should the unthinkable ever happen, whether it be a dispute over academic standards, affairs of the heart (such as a dispute over the status of a relationship as "open"), mental problems, or politically motivated, state law currently prohibits me from protecting my students with all of the tools that I am trained and proficient to use. Time and time again, an analysis of every single mass-shooting incident indicates the single biggest factor affecting the casualty rate is the time it takes for an individual to effectively engage the shooter, followed by the availability of victims.

Again, I agree that I SHOULD not feel the need to be armed on-campus. Considering the aformentioned, I don't believe it's that bad of an idea. It appears that most of the folks on this forum, the Texas Legislature, Governor, and voters agree with me.

Well said! ^^^^^^

 

[wakal]

He is a political creature plain and simple...knows how to lick political testicle to get his next paycheck..

Like most general officers I've known, he is a coward when it comes to personal weapons. Unfortunately, that is a common attitude in the military in general (heh). Marines killed because their weapons were locked up ON GUADACANAL after the island was "pacified"...through Vietnam...nothing new. The military does not trust people with weapons "in public" except for very clear and controlled circumstances. Most piss their pants at the thought of a buck private off duty toting a pistol.

Which would be...cowardly...

Billy, much like his asshole buddy the lying adulterer and walking security violation Patraeus can **** off and get back to suck starting Harleys...which is how they got their jobs in the first place.

 

[Coop45]

Anyone over E-7 is a politician. My Gunny told me so!

 

[TheDan]

My daughter is a UT faculty member & will carry concealed on campus if "on campus carry" passes.

I wonder how that is going to play out with university employees. It's already against the employee handbook to carry weapons. Since the university is "public" can they not restrict employees from carrying?

 

[TheDan]

I don't know who or what the "Oathkeepers" are.

Domestic terrorists according to the current administration, lol...

Are Texans just stupid? Is it the shoes?

I've been much more relaxed ever since I finally caved in and got some pull on boots, so maybe you're onto something.

I will go so far as to say that the more they've BT and DT, the less reliable their judgement becomes. It has been poisoned by a lifetime of inapplicable anecdotes that pretty much every person in the world who has lived long enough will mistake, in their own lives, for wisdom.
...
This post has been about general principles and may fairly be looked upon as a waste of space in this thread.

This concept is certainly much deeper than this thread, but it is applicable to every thread. We are all too often blind to our own bias and unwittingly seek to validate it.

 

[PhulesAu]

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, Baffle them with Bull Shit.

 

[satx78247]

TheDan,

I'm NOT an attorney BUT I most strongly suspect that the provisions of the various public college/university employee handbooks will be held to be VOID on the passage of "on campus carry".
(I was in a political meeting tonight where one of Joe Strauss' staff said that he believes that "on campus" WILL pass the TX HoR & be signed into law.)

yours, satx

 

[Wabbit69]

I wonder how that is going to play out with university employees. It's already against the employee handbook to carry weapons. Since the university is "public" can they not restrict employees from carrying?

See the proposed addition of section 411.2031 to the Texas Government Code. Specifically, 411.2031(c) is pretty unambiguous and should answer your question.

https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB11/2015

 

[peeps]

See the proposed addition of section 411.2031 to the Texas Government Code. Specifically, 411.2031(c) is pretty unambiguous and should answer your question.

https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB11/2015

TheDan,

I'm NOT an attorney BUT I most strongly suspect that the provisions of the various public college/university employee handbooks will be held to be VOID on the passage of "on campus carry".
(I was in a political meeting tonight where one of Joe Strauss' staff said that he believes that "on campus" WILL pass the TX HoR & be signed into law.)

yours, satx

I wonder how that is going to play out with university employees. It's already against the employee handbook to carry weapons. Since the university is "public" can they not restrict employees from carrying?

It appears the institution, public or private, will be able to post 30.06 as long as they follow Section 411.2031(e). Has anyone found out what "consultation with faculty, staff & students" actually means? So basically, will the school take a small, selected board of their choosing and vote to post...??

 

[Wabbit69]

411.2031(e) is for private institutions only. Does not apply to public institutions.

 

[locke_n_load]

It appears the institution, public or private, will be able to post 30.06 as long as they follow Section 411.2031(e). Has anyone found out what "consultation with faculty, staff & students" actually means? So basically, will the school take a small, selected board of their choosing and vote to post...??

Birdwell or Estes made it clear that Universities will NOT be able to opt out. Defeats the purpose of the whole bill.

 

[peeps]

Birdwell or Estes made it clear that Universities will NOT be able to opt out. Defeats the purpose of the whole bill.

411.2031(e) is for private institutions only. Does not apply to public institutions.

Yea I glossed over that, shouldn't be on my phone at work anyways :-S thanks

 

[miamigunsinc]

Yep. Playing to his "constituency". Most academics are scared of guns.

Don't be scared.