Will Texas ever go to Second Amendment Carry?

[Mreed911]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought if you weren't carrying a firearm, you weren't required to show your CHL? Yea or no?

Correct. Gov't Code 411.205.

Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Once you go out with a CHL and a handgun you're required to ID with BOTH whenever asked. No handgun, no requirement to carry or show CHL. The transportation code has specific provisions about showing a DL when driving, but again, that wasn't what was being discussed.

That is NOT, however, what the OP stated. The OP stated that ANYONE is required to ID when asked which is provably false.

 

[Charlie]

Correct. Gov't Code 411.205.


Once you go out with a CHL and a handgun you're required to ID whenever asked. No handgun, no requirement to carry or show CHL.

That is NOT, however, what the OP stated. The OP stated that ANYONE is required to ID when asked which is provably false.

Thanks for the info. I was looking for that reg. If you are not carrying, you are not (by regulation) required to show you CHL. But I'd do it either way. If you are only "detained" you are not (if I'm reading the laws correctly) require to show an ID, but once arrested, you are required to ID. Correct?

 

[franzas]

I have stated my qualifications what are yours?

welcome back MPA1988. Now please leave.

 

[Mreed911]

Thanks for the info. I was looking for that reg. If you are not carrying, you not (by regulation) required to show you CHL. But I'd do it either way. If you are only "detained" you are not (if I'm reading the laws correctly) require to show an ID, but once arrested, you are required to ID. Correct?

If you are carrying a handgun you're required to show both if asked for any reason, valid or not, period.

If you're not carrying a handgun, you're not required to ID at all (either show or provide) unless you're lawfully arrested (NOT detained), barring any other special circumstances clearly illuminated in the law (driving a car, working serving/selling alcohol, etc.).

Of course I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, it's based on my reading of the clear wording of the law as copied in prior posts. It also doesn't mean you won't be unlawfully arrested, however the consequences of such are very likely to work out in your favor since that's almost guaranteed to be a federal civil rights violation.

 

[Charlie]

That's the way I read it also! Thanks

 

[Mreed911]

Just to illustrate the point:

Texas Failure to Identify Law, What it Says vs. What Police Think It Says | ExCop-LawStudent

What is not an offense is refusing to provide your name, date of birth, or residence address when you are lawfully detained. See Dutton v. Hayes-Pupko, No. 03-06-00438-CV, 2008 Tex. App. LEXIS 6030, 2008 WL 3166324 (Tex. App.–Austin 2008, no pet.). The court held that Deputy Derrick Dutton had arrested Sheryl Hayes-Pupko without probable cause since the law did not require her to identify herself while she was only being detained.. Dutton’s mistake of law did not provide a defense for the false arrest claim.

A few more nails from that blog:

Police officers in this state have an idea that they have the right to identify anyone at anytime for any or no reason. The courts have repeatedly slapped them down on this.

• “The application of Tex. Penal Code Ann., Tit. 8, § 38.02 (1974), to detain appellant and require him to identify himself violated the Fourth Amendment because the officers lacked any reasonable suspicion to believe appellant was engaged or had engaged in criminal conduct. Accordingly, appellant may not be punished for refusing to identify himself, and the conviction is Reversed.” Brown v. Texas, 443 U.S. 47 (1979).
• “It is clear petitioner was arrested and convicted for his refusal to answer Officer Jennings’ question requesting that petitioner identify himself. This is impermissible even in the context of a lawful investigatory stop.” Spring v. Caldwell, 516 F. Supp. 1223 (S.D. Tex. 1981), reversed on other grounds 692 F.2d 994 (5th Cir. 1982).
• “First, Officer Lowe obtained identification from each occupant of the automobile though he had no legal basis whatever for demanding them.” Lewis v. State, 664 S.W.2d 345 (Tex. Crim. App. 1984).
• “Moreover, the Supreme Court has previously dealt with a case in which Texas police officers demanded that an individual identify himself even though they had no reasonable suspicion that he had committed a crime. In Brown v. Texas, the Court [11] ruled that Texas Penal Code Ann. § 38.02 (a), as enacted by the Texas legislature in 1974, was unconstitutional because it allowed an officer to stop and demand identification of an individual without any specific basis or belief that he was involved in criminal activity.” Weddle v. Ferrell, No. 3:99-CV-0453-G, 2000 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 2659, 2000 WL 256891 (N.D. Tex. 2000).
• “Officers have the right to conduct an investigation of a driver following a traffic violation, but do not have authority to investigate a passenger without reasonable suspicion.” St. George v. State, 237 S.W.3d 720 (Tex. Crim. App. 2007) (holding that arrest of passenger for failure to identify not valid absent legal detention).

 

[London]

The law is there. Get off your high horse and call the Attorney Generals Office and ask.

The AG office does not give interpretations of the law or legal advice. Just cite us some penal code or admit you are wrong. After all, the burden of proof is on the claimant.

I have stated my qualifications what are yours? Schools no longer teach cursive reading or writing, so in a few years no one can read the constitution anyway since it is written in cursive. Did you know that?

Uh.... okay? Last time I checked Wikipedia doesn't use cursive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution

 

[locke_n_load]

Shelby was pretty wrong in my thread on rifle carry around schools in your vehicle too...

 

[Mreed911]

In another thread he said that in 12 years as a street cop he never DREW his weapon. That, if true, says a lot.

 

[Younggun]

In another thread he said that in 12 years as a street cop he never DREW his weapon. That, if true, says a lot.

Maybe he misspelled "mall".

 

[London]

Maybe he misspelled "mall".

Damn, man, thanks for the laugh!

 

[wakal]

Call of Duty XI: MALL COP NIGHTMARE

"...code 4, code 4, yogurt machine down!"

 

[Mike1234567]

ShelbyV8... Don't spread bullshit if you don't want it thrown back at you. If you really were a cop then you must have violated many persons' Constitutional and Civil Rights. You should be ashamed of your own ignorance and having treated US citizens with such disrespect and disdain. Apparently, no one ever reported your abuse and/or your Chief was just as ignorant as you or they just didn't give a shit. Maybe your entire department should be replaced with those who do care about the law and the US Constitution.

 

[HHH]

I says that,when they ask for ID you give them both,,,if you don't there going to ask for it anyway,,because they know..Just be up front with it and save yourself trouble.

 

[Mreed911]

I says that,when they ask for ID you give them both,,,if you don't there going to ask for it anyway,,because they know..Just be up front with it and save yourself trouble.

Well there we have it. An official opinion. We can close the thread now.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

I didn't say anything about being searched. I am talking about any and every body being allowed to carry with no control what so ever. Just be thankful that IQ test aren't a requirement for a CHL. Since you have all these God given rights which branch of the military did you serve in?

Back for ten minutes, first thread perused in over a year, and already some ignorant sonofabitch has my blood boiling.
ShelbyV8, your statements in this thread up to page 7 (because that's how far I got before I had to respond to your insipid ramblings!) are grossly uninformed, supportive of the erosion of our rights, and outright offensive.
I sincerely hope you're a troll, because if you're a real person, then you are "cancer" to our population!

 

[lalonguecarabine]

MOTHEROFGOD!!! He was a cop?! (Just read the rest of the thread)

Let me do a little research on this guy...

GOT HIM! Here's his picture:


Someone go get this guy a liter of cola!

 

[rsayloriii]

MOTHEROFGOD!!! He was a cop?! (Just read the rest of the thread)

Let me do a little research on this guy...

GOT HIM! Here's his picture:
View attachment 28110

Someone go get this guy a liter of cola!

Lol aren't they always?

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