12 GA Pump Action for Home Defense

[Tejano Scott]

Haven't read the thread, but I will offer this advice. I've actually been indoors once when a 12 gauge was negligently discharged (yes, I'm the idiot and I've told the story here many times). First, I was completely stunned and disoriented after the gun fired. It was so loud, my ears ringed for a few days afterwards. I was so looped out, someone could have walked over to me, pushed me over with 1 hand, and disarmed me. Granted, I didn't have the adrenaline dump going thru me that you would expect to have if someone was about to put you in a life or death situation. Second, Number 2 steel shot (which I kept loaded for self defense so it wouldn't over penetrate) actually made it thru 4 drywall walls and some clothes. I was very lucky it didn't go into an adjacent apartment.

 

[Savage20]

What is YOUR experience?

Bird shot is extremely ineffective as a defensive ammo. Especially against a person heavily clothed.

Are you speaking from experience?

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I have probably shot more medium to large animals than 99% of the population. I can assure you that bird shot, while it may eventually cause death in larger animals, is not a stopper.

Oh, I'm assured? Well that settles it.

 

[Savage20]

There are many accounts of police officers, hunters, and paramedics involving close range birdshot victims and what they say is pretty uniform. Big, ugly, horrible LOOKING wounds, but not life threatening unless left untreated.

I worked in the ICU for years and can recount many GSW patients that didn't make it to us from the ER. Small caliber gut shots (pistol) are far more survivable than a shotgun to the torso at close range. And by close range, I mean across a room. Not 20 yards.

I've also shot more than my share of medium game. I know how to put them down cleanly and quickly. For close range, I don't have any qualms about 12ga birdshot to the head or vitals. It's killed many, many pigs and they weren't even wearing 4 layers of denim.

Have a nice day.

 

[Younggun]

I shot a rabid coon at less than 10yards with a 20ga Remington 1100, modified choke, #7 birdshot.

Didn't blow a hole in him. Rolled him over backwards but showed very little in the way of visible trauma. Definitely didn't blow a hole in him.

But I'm sure 20ga to 12ga makes all the difference.

 

[General Zod]

No bird shot for HD ever.

And yes, I have "personal" experience - had nothing but birdshot at hand to eliminate a possibly rabid coyote that was chowing down on a fawn (with absolutely no fear of the human who almost literally stumbled upon him) in my dad's backyard. At extremely close range - within 20 feet - it took three rounds of birdshot to take Wile E down. Now, extrapolate from a 40 lb coyote to a 175 lb meth head busting your door down...birdshot's not gonna be something I trust my life to.

I've heard that #4 buck is a good choice where wall penetration is a worry.

 

[Saltyag2010]

The Box O' Truth #56 - Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot The Box O' Truth

That's awesome. In home distances are best for a shot gun. The spread is small and ugly. Nice ragged wound.

 

[Saltyag2010]

No bird shot for HD ever.

And yes, I have "personal" experience - had nothing but birdshot at hand to eliminate a possibly rabid coyote that was chowing down on a fawn (with absolutely no fear of the human who almost literally stumbled upon him) in my dad's backyard. At extremely close range - within 20 feet - it took three rounds of birdshot to take Wile E down. Now, extrapolate from a 40 lb coyote to a 175 lb meth head busting your door down...birdshot's not gonna be something I trust my life to.

I've heard that #4 buck is a good choice where wall penetration is a worry.

My gun shop said to use 4 or 00 buck. 4 will create a nastier hole but isn't meant for 25 yds or further.

I can't imagine duck loads or high brass not doing its job within 15-10 feet

 

[Acera]

I got my Beretta 1201P loaded with the modern version of that old favorite the buck-n-ball. The Winchester PDX1 load has three 00-buck copper plated pellets on top of a 1 oz slug.

 

[Andy]

I have shot people and in my experience, penetration (and obviously accuracy) is needed - I haven't shot anyone with a shotgun, but the same terminal ballistics requirements to stop someone still apply.

While I agree that a near-contact wound with bird-shot can be devastating, I'd prefer not to have to close in with the threat just so my mojo starts working, you know?

I don't have kids, so while only my many girlfriends have to worry about excess penetration *cough*, I do feel some sympathy for anyone who does due to neighbors, kids, etc because that could limit your choices - and I'd hate to have to choose between the ability to stop someone vs the risk of over-penetration. If it were me, I'd try to be in some position where I was lower down and shooting angled upwards (or higher up and shooting downward) to minimize the risk to others.

Me, I settled on Federal Tactical #1 Buckshot ammo with FliteControl wad (backed-up with slugs on the side just in case) - I shot this target back in 2013:

 

[Younggun]

I have shot people and in my experience, penetration (and obviously accuracy) is needed - I haven't shot anyone with a shotgun, but the same terminal ballistics requirements to stop someone still apply.

While I agree that a near-contact wound with bird-shot can be devastating, I'd prefer not to have to close in with the threat just so my mojo starts working, you know?

I don't have kids, so while only my many girlfriends have to worry about excess penetration *cough*, I do feel some sympathy for anyone who does due to neighbors, kids, etc because that could limit your choices - and I'd hate to have to choose between the ability to stop someone vs the risk of over-penetration.

Me, I settled on Federal Tactical #1 Buckshot ammo with FliteControl wad (backed-up with slugs on the side just in case) - I shot this target back in 2013:

BAZINGA!

 

[Andy]

I forgot to mention - the "Tactical" stuff is usually Low-Recoil, so there's usually less penetration to worry about than normal loads.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

You can mitigate a lot of over penetration risk by making your rounds first go through an entire torso before it gets to walls, etc.

 

[WTK]

I agree with the argument that any direct hit form a shotgun from a shotgun, at home defense ranges, is so devastating that barrel length, gauge and load don't make much difference.
Using birdshot might lessen the damage in the event of a miss or accidental discharge.
I love pump shotguns but as for the intimidation factor, an intruder isn't likely to laugh at your H&R single shot .410

 

[Charlie]

You can mitigate a lot of over penetration risk by making your rounds first go through an entire torso before it gets to walls, etc.

Epic!

 

[Charlie]

I agree with the argument that any direct hit form a shotgun from a shotgun, at home defense ranges, is so devastating that barrel length, gauge and load don't make much difference.
Using birdshot might lessen the damage in the event of a miss or accidental discharge.
I love pump shotguns but as for the intimidation factor, an intruder isn't likely to laugh at your H&R single shot .410

All 'Zactly Correct!

 

[robertc1024]

Check. On Spreadsheet.

 

[BIGPAPIGREG]

ohh good!!!!! This is still up for debate!!! I was worried it had been solved.........

 

[Enochwel]

ohh good!!!!! This is still up for debate!!! I was worried it had been solved.........

Not on my watch!


Sent from my iPhone while doing the hokey pokey, simultaneously.

 

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT]

Federal #1 with flight control has been at the top of my list for home defense. I just haven't found it locally yet. Online purchase is kinda high. Sooner or later I will just buy it... lol


the debate is on!

 

[WCDUB]

Shortest barrel possible, which would be 18.5in for factory barrels without going to an SBS (short barreled shotgun) which requires the NFA stamp.

Ammo type will be argued to death. I load mine with 00buck, but #4buck would work fine as well. Lots of folks in apartments like birdshot (field/target loads) to reduce the risk of overpenetration. While I do load 00buck in mine, I certainly would not feel undergunned with a 12ga with birdshot. At realistic in-home defense distances of about 15ft, even birdshot will completely f*ck up a perp.

I do not at all agree with the strategy of pumping the action loudly to "deter altercation." Mine is locked and loaded.

Here's mine. 590A1 18.5in

Great shotgun! What is that light,and what does it cost(with mount)? What is that sling?