Active Shooter at Robb Elementary in Uvalde

[Axxe55]

More than hesitated.

Honestly, I was being generous with my comment.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I gave a whole lot of benefit of doubt in the beginning and was wrong for doing so. There was zero fog of war that could have clouded any decision-making by the time the first folks were on-scene. I don’t even think the LEOs that were reported to have been shot at and were seen retreating around 7 minutes into the video were being directly targeted by the POS. At that moment the barricaded suspect ended and the only course of action was to assault forward.

I do stand by my comments that most LEOs aren’t highly trained and tactically proficient shooters or assaulters. I stand by my comments on the NEMS ICS and it being the wrong model for the immediate kinetic response.

A childhood friend of mine and son of a member here who is fairly high up at DPS publicly wrote this a few days ago and he hit the nail on the head. “We, as a profession, need to stop saying that “The most important thing is coming home at the end of your shift”. It puts the listener in a mind that police officers should always consider their own well being first. This is simply not the case.

The most important thing is knowing that you performed your sworn duty with honor, courage, and a deep reverence for human life whether you come home at the end of your shift or not. “

 

[TX oddball]

These stories that are coming out now from people that were kept from entering to help their children is also making LE in Uvalde look really bad. And they were not armed, but were willing to enter, while the LE officers with guns hesitated.

IMO, that looks really bad.

Yes. LEO not entering the shooter's classroom is one thing. But it is just flat-out insane that they actively prevented parents from trying to save their kids, by handcuffing them and tasing them. Sheer insanity.

 

[Sam7sf]

I don’t understand two things. The officer who first shows up with a carbine or sbr seems to chicken out.

If a call was made for an active shooter, other than the guy with the carbine or sbr, why did everyone else just have handguns? Did they not have anything else in the car?

 

[Axxe55]

I gave a whole lot of benefit of doubt in the beginning and was wrong for doing so. There was zero fog of war that could have clouded any decision-making by the time the first folks were on-scene. I don’t even think the LEOs that were reported to have been shot at and were seen retreating around 7 minutes into the video were being directly targeted by the POS. At that moment the barricaded suspect ended and the only course of action was to assault forward.

I do stand by my comments that most LEOs aren’t highly trained and tactically proficient shooters or assaulters. I stand by my comments on the NEMS ICS and it being the wrong model for the immediate kinetic response.

A childhood friend of mine and son of a member here who is fairly high up at DPS publicly wrote this a few days ago and he hit the nail on the head. “We, as a profession, need to stop saying that “The most important thing is coming home at the end of your shift”. It puts the listener in a mind that police officers should always consider their own well being first. This is simply not the case.

The most important thing is knowing that you performed your sworn duty with honor, courage, and a deep reverence for human life whether you come home at the end of your shift or not. “

I too gave the LE officers a huge benefit of the doubt that their decisions were tactical or there was good reason for waiting. I too was way wrong as more and more information has become available.

I do think it's important that they come home at the end of their shift, but in their job, they carry a gun and badge, which I think it implies that the job carries a certain amount of inherent risk and danger. Just like being a firefighter. If they are unwilling, or unable to assume that degree of responsibility to the community then maybe a career change is warranted.

"Protect and serve...." is suppose to mean something IMO.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Yes. LEO not entering the shooter's classroom is one thing. But it is just flat-out insane that they actively prevented parents from trying to save their kids, by handcuffing them and tasing them. Sheer insanity.

It appears that this will be their best avenue to pursue in a lawsuit.

 

[oldag]

I am surprised that among those in that hall, not even one had the courage to shoot through the door window.

Also surprised that none thought to make a coordinated effort and throw something against the exterior windows while someone from the hall fired through the door window.

 

[seeker_two]

Yes. LEO not entering the shooter's classroom is one thing. But it is just flat-out insane that they actively prevented parents from trying to save their kids, by handcuffing them and tasing them. Sheer insanity.

Great example of how governments treat armed people vs. unarmed people. If only those parents had brought guns and the will to use them.....

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[Axxe55]

I am surprised that among those in that hall, not even one had the courage to shoot through the door window.

Also surprised that none thought to make a coordinated effort and throw something against the exterior windows while someone from the hall fired through the door window.

It amazes or shocks me that no one even thought about using the exterior windows to either take a shot at the shooter or to use them in some way as a diversion to distract the shooter.

 

[motorcarman]

Great example of how governments treat armed people vs. unarmed people. If only those parents had brought guns and the will to use them.....

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The police would have SHOT the parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[seeker_two]

The police would have SHOT the parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Based on UPD's prior behavior, they would likely run away.....

....if not, bullets fly both ways

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[oldag]

It amazes or shocks me that no one even thought about using the exterior windows to either take a shot at the shooter or to use them in some way as a diversion to distract the shooter.

I tried hard to give them the benefit of the doubt, but that seems to evaporate with each new revelation.

 

[Sam7sf]

Each department should have the most honest slogan on interceptors/patrol rigs.

“To protect and serve” ok…a classic.

“Better to get funds from traffic offenses”…that’s true with some.

“If it’s brown it goes down”…hey, maybe this department is racist? Don’t know what gave it away.

So the slogan for Uvalde should have been: “vagina patrol”.

 

[Sam7sf]

If you have complaints about my post, please contact the Uvalde county vagina office.

 

[TAZ]

It amazes or shocks me that no one even thought about using the exterior windows to either take a shot at the shooter or to use them in some way as a diversion to distract the shooter.

Some SWAT trainer had an interview on some news show. He nailed it dead on with regards to the mindset. These officers from the ground up through their chain of command were in so far over their heads that they essentially blanked out. No more computational power available. Mr hand sanitizer reverts to the mantra of the last 2 years of must sanitize hands. Chain of command goes to barrucaded suspect not my immediate issue. Sadly, not one person reverted to their Active Shooter training, cause dollars to donuts that was a get your participation trophy and cross one more off the continuing education checklist type event.

This was NEVER a barricaded suspect. One doesn’t go from shooting up a classroom to barricaded suspect. One can go form shooting up place A and then holing your in place B, like the PODS in Dallas. One dies not shoot up a place and then stay in place and we change tact to barricade. The Active Shooter protocols be principles revolve around acting to save life. Acting to save life means stopping the violence AND rendering medical aid to the injured. You can’t render aid to children suffering from GSW if you’re sitting around talking.

Edited to remove bad info regarding BOROTAC being told it was a barricaded suspect. Seems they were told of the situation, but trusted the info about the door being locked and impossible to open. Not sure I blame them for trusting the info. I would not have assumed all the cops there were full of crap. I guess new SOP tryst but verify.

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[stdreb27]

Some SWAT trainer had an interview on some news show. He nailed it dead on with regards to the mindset. These officers from the ground up through their chain of command were in so far over their heads that they essentially blanked out. No more computational power available. Mr hand sanitizer reverts to the mantra of the last 2 years of must sanitize hands. Chain of command goes to barrucaded suspect not my immediate issue. Sadly, not one person reverted to their Active Shooter training, cause dollars to donuts that was a get your participation trophy and cross one more off the continuing education checklist type event.

I read somewhere that even the BORATAC folks were told this was a barricaded suspect vs active shooter. Can’t verify though.

This was NEVER a barricaded suspect. One doesn’t go from shooting up a classroom to barricaded suspect. One can go form shooting up place A and then holing your in place B, like the PODS in Dallas. One dies not shoot up a place and then stay in place and we change tact to barricade. The Active Shooter protocols be principles revolve around acting to save life. Acting to save life means stopping the violence AND rendering medical aid to the injured. You can’t render aid to children suffering from GSW if you’re sitting around talking.


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This the guy?

 

[easy rider]

I am surprised that among those in that hall, not even one had the courage to shoot through the door window.

Also surprised that none thought to make a coordinated effort and throw something against the exterior windows while someone from the hall fired through the door window.

You also have to realize, first, they only assumed the doors were locked, and I say doors because the next door was to an adjoining room. Couldn't someone draw the shooter's attention at one door while breaching the next? Oh wait! Someone needed to check their phone to see how this was trending on Twitter.

 

[TAZ]

This the guy?

Different dude. Active SWAT trainer still. Very similar opinions though.


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[Axxe55]

I tried hard to give them the benefit of the doubt, but that seems to evaporate with each new revelation.

Same here.

 

[Axxe55]