Chauvin guilty on all counts

[TX oddball]

Although thoroughly debunked by Fact Checkers (and we all know how fair and un-biased they are) one if not more of the jury pool was concerned about unrest and the safety of their person and property if the "right" verdict was not returned. These thoughts were as the trial was beginning.

Exactly why my first post in this thread was "mob rule". The "mob" was going to get their way with this trial, by hook or by crook, especially after Biden took office. In addition to this, look at the facts and evidence (autopsy results!) that weren't allowed in this trial.

If there ever was a kangaroo court, this was it.

 

[bbbass]

Cops were called. Were they just suppose to ignore the complaint and leave Floyd to go about his business?

Well, that's what some brilliant minds want to do with POC knife fights...

You seem ignorant of the Minnesota law.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

Therefore, George Floyd committed the crime of Third Degree Murder of.... George Floyd.

I have to agree with @cycleguy2300 again. If something is lawful, then it's not a criminal act. It can be immoral, or even unethical and still be lawful. And the only way something lawful becomes a crime later is if the laws are changed. Even if that were to happen, the act at the time was lawful, and only those acts after the laws are changed then become unlawful.

IIRC, Rhino wanted to invoke a Nuremberg trial for Chauvin.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Sacrificial lamb....

 

[Axxe55]

IIRC, the jury was never sequestered. And with that said, after Maxine Waters opened her mouth, demanding a guilty verdict in the trial, or the riots would start. (or words to that effect.) the judge should have declared a mistrial at least.

IMO, the jury was influenced unduly by outside comments, and probably felt "compelled" to deliver a guilty verdict, regardless of what the facts and evidence were in the case.


This was very high profile trial and one with very strong racial overtones about it, (white cop/black suspect.) that as soon as the jury was selected, they should have been sequestered to some degree from the beginning. From my understanding, that never haappened.

 

[bbbass]

I had to look up what Rhino posted about the "Godwin treatment" since I'm not a real scholarly student of the more arcane treatises. Reading it will give one a fascinating look into the mind of Rhino:

William Godwin (1756–1836) was the founder of philosophical anarchism. In his An Enquiry Concerning Political Justice (1793) he argued that government is a corrupting force in society, perpetuating dependence and ignorance, but that it will be rendered increasingly unnecessary and powerless by the gradual spread of knowledge and the expansion of the human understanding. Politics will be displaced by an enlarged personal morality as truth conquers error and mind subordinates matter. In this development the rigorous exercise of private judgment, and its candid expression in public discussion, plays a central role, motivating his rejection of a wide range of co-operative and rule-governed practices which he regards as tending to mental enslavement, such as law, private property, marriage and concerts. Epitomising the optimism of events in France at the time he began writing, Godwin looked forward to a period in which the dominance of mind over matter would be so complete that mental perfectibility would take a physical form, allowing us to control illness and ageing and become immortal. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/godwin/

Appears to be a very early rendition of The Celestine Prophecy, a nauseating liberal tome. And note the date (1793). The French Revolution was 1789-1799, so Godwin may have been one of the idealistic student "thinkers" responsible for the neverending revolts in that country. Rhino looks up to these people??? "Do you hear the people sing, singing the songs of angry men?

 

[Axxe55]

IMO, there was not a fair trial that proceeded for Chauvin. It had the appearances of a trial, but it was simply a dog and pony show for the media circus that was reporting on it. A guilty verdict was the only verdict that was acceptable, and the only possible outcome, since Chauvin should never have been charged with any murder charges to begin with. I could see manslaughter, or even negligent homicide, but not any sort of murder charges.

Had Chauvin performed the restraint hold he did, and it hadn't been approved by his department, I might could see charging him with murder, maybe. But his own department threw him under the bus on that one.

And what do I think of Chauvin personally? Big question, and a loaded one. The more I found out about Chauvin, the less I would probably like the guy if we met in person. Personally, some of the inner details and some things about his personality, I think he's possibly an asshole and a douchebag, that he probably has very few close friends. But, when a person sits on a jury, you are not tasked with coming to a be his friend, or to like him, or his personality. His case is supposed to be decided on facts and evidence that is presented. But given much of the evidence and the facts that came to light, there is no way I would have convicted him of murder, and only a possible maybe on manslaughter or negligent homicide.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I had to look up what Rhino posted about the "Godwin treatment" since I'm not a real scholarly student of the more arcane treatises. Reading it will give one a fascinating look into the mind of Rhino:

William Godwin (1756–1836) was the founder of philosophical anarchism. In his An Enquiry Concerning Political Justice (1793) he argued that government is a corrupting force in society, perpetuating dependence and ignorance, but that it will be rendered increasingly unnecessary and powerless by the gradual spread of knowledge and the expansion of the human understanding. Politics will be displaced by an enlarged personal morality as truth conquers error and mind subordinates matter. In this development the rigorous exercise of private judgment, and its candid expression in public discussion, plays a central role, motivating his rejection of a wide range of co-operative and rule-governed practices which he regards as tending to mental enslavement, such as law, private property, marriage and concerts. Epitomising the optimism of events in France at the time he began writing, Godwin looked forward to a period in which the dominance of mind over matter would be so complete that mental perfectibility would take a physical form, allowing us to control illness and ageing and become immortal. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/godwin/

Appears to be a very early rendition of The Celestine Prophecy, a nauseating liberal tome. And note the date (1793). The French Revolution was 1789-1799, so Godwin may have been one of the idealistic student "thinkers" responsible for the neverending revolts in that country. Rhino looks up to these people??? "Do you hear the people sing, singing the songs of angry men?

And in those days there was no king and every man did what was right in his own eyes... if you care to read on you see this was not exactly an endorsement.

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[bbbass]

And in those days there was no king and every man did what was right in his own eyes...

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Nah, that was while Man was still in the Garden.

 

[rotor]

Chauvin may have a history of prolonged knee holds....

DOJ mulling charges against Derek Chauvin for 2017 arrest involving teen boy: report

The U.S. Justice Department (DOJ) is mulling whether to charge now-convicted former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in connection with a 2017 incident in which he allegedly violently handl…

nypost.com

 

[bbbass]

https://thepostmillennial.com/alter...house-if-they-were-not-happy-with-the-verdict

 

[Axxe55]

Chauvin may have a history of prolonged knee holds....

DOJ mulling charges against Derek Chauvin for 2017 arrest involving teen boy: report

The U.S. Justice Department (DOJ) is mulling whether to charge now-convicted former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in connection with a 2017 incident in which he allegedly violently handl…

nypost.com

So now they want to kick the man while he's down. Un-phucking-believable!

 

[Younggun]

Chauvin may have a history of prolonged knee holds....

DOJ mulling charges against Derek Chauvin for 2017 arrest involving teen boy: report

The U.S. Justice Department (DOJ) is mulling whether to charge now-convicted former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in connection with a 2017 incident in which he allegedly violently handl…

nypost.com

Talk about framing.


That story is meaningless to me without the context in which the actions took place.


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[rotor]

Talk about framing.
That story is meaningless to me without the context in which the actions took place.


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Perhaps Google "justice department going after chauvin" will help. If Chauvin has a pattern of kneeing people for an extended period there just may be more to his motives than we think. Apparently this was kept from his trial. I am not drawing conclusions but there may be more to the story.

 

[Younggun]

Perhaps Google "justice department going after chauvin" will help. If Chauvin has a pattern of kneeing people for an extended period there just may be more to his motives than we think. Apparently this was kept from his trial. I am not drawing conclusions but there may be more to the story.

“Kneeing”...I’ll just replace that with “restraining” so that it gives the proper context of what’s actually happening.


So, we have a case from 2017 where he restrained someone for an “extended period”, but the story doesn’t touch on any of the actions taken by the person being restrained before or during the time in which the restraint was taking place.


I’d also say that “having a history of restraining people for extended periods” if anything would further make the murder conviction appear to be unjustified. Although I really don’t think a single case with or without context meets the definition “a history of”.


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[rotor]

“Kneeing”...I’ll just replace that with “restraining” so that it gives the proper context of what’s actually happening.


So, we have a case from 2017 where he restrained someone for an “extended period”, but the story doesn’t touch on any of the actions taken by the person being restrained before or during the time in which the restraint was taking place.


I’d also say that “having a history of restraining people for extended periods” if anything would further make the murder conviction appear to be unjustified. Although I really don’t think a single case with or without context meets the definition “a history of”.


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Call it what you want but if he has a history of restraining people handcuffed in the prone position for prolonged time with his knee on their neck and they claim they can’t breathe there may be more to the story.
I don’t know if Chauvin is a bad cop but there are bad cops. I hate to think that Chauvin is a bad cop but he may be. My first impression of the video was that he was a bad cop. Floyd was just so bad of a guy that maybe Chauvin was right. The jury didn’t feel that way.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Call it what you want but if he has a history of restraining people handcuffed in the prone position for prolonged time with his knee on their neck and they claim they can’t breathe there may be more to the story.
I don’t know if Chauvin is a bad cop but there are bad cops. I hate to think that Chauvin is a bad cop but he may be. My first impression of the video was that he was a bad cop. Floyd was just so bad of a guy that maybe Chauvin was right. The jury didn’t feel that way.

When video from multiple cameras was shown in the trial it became clear that Chauvin applied his knee to Floyd's shoulder blade, not his neck. No evidencr of pressure yo ghd neck was found during the autopsy.

Also significant is that Floyd had been complaining to thd pojnt of going full hypochondriac about everything he could make up aside from the truth that he ingested enough drugs to kill a rhinoceros. As far as i am concerned, Floyd brought his demise on himself.

As for Chauvin, he is not a large man, especially compared with Floyd. My guess is that he found a technique that worked well with his stature and agility and it became a favorite.

Last but not least, how the hell was Chauvin convicted of mutually exclusive charges? How could he have both accidentally and deliberately killed Floyd at the same time?

 

[Dougw1515]

I subscribe to the "favorite" technique theory as well. I would suspect most LE's have their favorite.

 

[rotor]

When video from multiple cameras was shown in the trial it became clear that Chauvin applied his knee to Floyd's shoulder blade, not his neck. No evidencr of pressure yo ghd neck was found during the autopsy.

Also significant is that Floyd had been complaining to thd pojnt of going full hypochondriac about everything he could make up aside from the truth that he ingested enough drugs to kill a rhinoceros. As far as i am concerned, Floyd brought his demise on himself.

As for Chauvin, he is not a large man, especially compared with Floyd. My guess is that he found a technique that worked well with his stature and agility and it became a favorite.

Last but not least, how the hell was Chauvin convicted of mutually exclusive charges? How could he have both accidentally and deliberately killed Floyd at the same time?

I saw it too. And when Floyd had no pulse what did Chauvin do?

 

[cycleguy2300]

Perhaps Google "justice department going after chauvin" will help. If Chauvin has a pattern of kneeing people for an extended period there just may be more to his motives than we think. Apparently this was kept from his trial. I am not drawing conclusions but there may be more to the story.

Or he was operating withing policy as he had been trained...

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[rotor]

Or he was operating withing policy as he had been trained...

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Perhaps. Do you think their policy is to not do anything when the person under arrest no longer has a pulse?