CHL Traffic Stop

[Nate C]

Unless a pedestrian is arrested he/she need not provide ID. However, many LEO either don't know the law or they disrespect it...

The first sentence of the quoted statement is sufficiently inaccurate to be misleading, but people should do their own research of Texas Penal Code section 38.02. The second sentence of the quoted statement is true, in my opinion.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Is this you, Kyle?

If not it soon will be! !!! I just need a hitch to tow the yeti.

 

[shortround]

I got pulled over in a small town two weeks ago.

Turned left onto a major thoroughfare with a median strip.

Cop told me he lit me up because I turned into on-coming traffic and failed to yield right of way from a private drive.

There were no on-coming cars, so I played stupid -- "Sorry Officer, I did not see any cars."

When he asked for my drivers license, I complied.

At the same time he saw my CHL and military ID.

Gave me a warning and said "nice car."

The car is a Ford Focus!

Be well.

 

[jbgramps]

I've been stopped twice when I had a pistol. On both occasions I informed the deputy I had a gun in the glove box. On the second tome the Deputy asked me if the gun was loaded. I had to suppress a chuckle. Kinda of pointless to carry an unloaded gun.

I smiled and flirted both times and even commented how handsome the deputy was. Still got a ticket. Go figure.

 

[BIGPAPIGREG]

No...but this thread is "CHL Traffic Stop"...

I never said that YOU weren't in a vehicle that was involved in a "traffic stop" or that YOU were driving........but, this thread is "CHL Traffic Stop"

 

[txinvestigator]

your papers please...

Is that true in Texas ? without probably cause / reasonable suspicion of something?

If LEO asks, just say no thanks as far as showing ID or DL since you are not required to carry it unless driving but you probably are required to give your name and address (most states)

Probable cause...

Several things;

1) The law does not require that the LEO go so far as to demand your ID, he need only demand that you identify yourself. If you are carrying, you must display both your CHL and ID or DL.

2) A LEO could be taking a report from you, and when he asks for your name, he is demanding that you ID yourself.

3) Generally, one is not required to carry or display ID UNLESS engaged in a licensed activity, like driving a car or CARRYING A HANDGUN IF YOU ARE LICENSED TO CARRY.

4) The net result is that anytime a CHL holder carries his handgun, he must also carry his CHL and DL/ID

 

[txinvestigator]

Haha. I have never been pulled over by any of these "trained" officers. One time I had to drive almost 2 miles to get off a bridge with no shoulders to safe spot. IME, they activate their lights right after I fly by!

Then you should stop where he activates the lights. The law does not give YOU discretion as to when to pull over. Anecdotes aside.

 

[txinvestigator]

lmao ya right. If I'm at my home I ain't showing him shit.

Good luck with that, Scooter.

 

[txinvestigator]

Unless a pedestrian is arrested he/she need not provide ID. However, many LEO either don't know the law or they disrespect it. A traffic stop does require ID when, not if, it's requested.

That is not entirely accurate, either.

If the pedestrian is engaged in a licensed activity, then the license must be produced when requested. Examples would be hunting, carry a handgun as a license holder, etc.

And if not engaged in a licensed activity, a person only has to verbally ID if arrested. The law does not require the carry of ID, again, unless engaged in a licensed activity.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

In other words, if you have gone through the time, effort, lived a clean life, paid your dues in order to legally carry so that you can defend yourself and your family from the thugs and rotten poor excuses for human beings in this world, you best hand over all identification to the police any time they ask.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I don't like the law either, but I would like being shot over a misunderstanding even less.

Call me risk averse?

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

I don't like the law either, but I would like being shot over a misunderstanding even less.

Call me risk averse?

Hey averse lol me too

 

[Se7en62]

When I was stopped a couple years ago, with both hands on the wheel, first thing I said was I have a CHL and there is a loaded pistoll next to my right thigh.
He asked to see the licenses and I said, I'll have to reach to my right rear pocket to get it, near where the gun is.
He said go ahead and thanks.

I know giving cops a hard time is the hip thing to do these days.
Sometimes one needs to pick their battles wisely.

I agree here. I am not a CHL holder but I do always have a loaded gun within reach in the car. I haven't been pulled over in a really long time, but if I were I would treat the officer like a human being who's doing his job and in a manner not to spoke him.

No one wants to be accidentally scared and police officers do not like being caught off guard. Remember this too: If push comes to shove and the officer feels threatened, it could cost you your life if it's in the wrong place at the wrong time. In this, it's always better to err on the side of caution.

 

[Mike_from_Texas]

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Nothing ambiguous here. (bolding added)

The law is pretty clear on the requirement to show the CHL but it doesn't say you are required to inform (voluntarily) if you have a gun, whether it be on your person or elsewhere.

My wife actually asked me about this over the weekend. She rarely carries on body but she always has a gun in her console.

Can someone show me the PC reference where it says you are required to disclose the status/location of your weapon?

 

[Mike_from_Texas]

That is not entirely accurate, either.

If the pedestrian is engaged in a licensed activity, then the license must be produced when requested. Examples would be hunting, carry a handgun as a license holder, etc.

And if not engaged in a licensed activity, a person only has to verbally ID if arrested. The law does not require the carry of ID, again, unless engaged in a licensed activity.

Not being sarcastic but how do you verbally ID yourself? And at what point would my "papers" be required?

 

[Mreed911]

Not being sarcastic but how do you verbally ID yourself? And at what point would my "papers" be required?

"My name is Joe Blow and my date of birth is 01/01/1901."

PC 38.02 is very clear on when you must provide ID - when you're under arrest.

Otherwise, if you're doing something that requires a license in Texas, the licensure statute for that activity may require you present the license, ID, etc. Examples: Driving, carrying a concealed weapon, performing duties as an EMS certified/licensed provider, etc.

 

[Bithabus]

Not being sarcastic but how do you verbally ID yourself?

"My name is John Doe, I live at 123 Fake St Austin TX. My DL number is 12345678". As TI stated you are only required to ID when under arrest.

And at what point would my "papers" be required?

Never, in the sense that you mean. If you are engaging in an activity that requires a license (such as driving or hunting) and you are stopped by LE you have to show your license.

 

[Shorts]

Sec. 521.025. LICENSE TO BE CARRIED AND EXHIBITED ON DEMAND; CRIMINAL PENALTY. (a) A person required to hold a license under Section 521.021 shall:
(1) have in the person's possession while operating a motor vehicle the class of driver's license appropriate for the type of vehicle operated; and
(2) display the license on the demand of a magistrate, court officer, or peace officer.
(b) A peace officer may stop and detain a person operating a motor vehicle to determine if the person has a driver's license as required by this section.
(c) A person who violates this section commits an offense. An offense under this subsection is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that:
(1) for a second conviction within one year after the date of the first conviction, the offense is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not less than $25 or more than $200;
(2) for a third or subsequent conviction within one year after the date of the second conviction the offense is a misdemeanor punishable by:
(A) a fine of not less than $25 or more than $500;
(B) confinement in the county jail for not less than 72 hours or more than six months; or
(C) both the fine and confinement; and
(3) if it is shown on the trial of the offense that at the time of the offense the person was operating the motor vehicle in violation of Section 601.191 and caused or was at fault in a motor vehicle accident that resulted in serious bodily injury to or the death of another person, an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(d) It is a defense to prosecution under this section if the person charged produces in court a driver's license:
(1) issued to that person;
(2) appropriate for the type of vehicle operated; and
(3) valid at the time of the arrest for the offense.
(e) The judge of each court shall report promptly to the department each conviction obtained in the court under this section.
(f) The court may assess a defendant an administrative fee not to exceed $10 if a charge under this section is dismissed because of the defense listed under Subsection (d).

 

[fishingsetx]

(b) A peace officer may stop and detain a person operating a motor vehicle to determine if the person has a driver's license as required by this section.

I'm curious about this one. Is there case law or other statutes that say otherwise? Can an officer actually pull you over just to check your DL without RS?

 

[Shorts]

Not being sarcastic but how do you verbally ID yourself? And at what point would my "papers" be required?

Name and date of birth.

You can lie, but when the descriptors from "your" return don't match you, if it comes back with any return at all, the LEO will dig to find out what you're hiding. (Because being a liar and evading the questions is suspicious)

CHLers are suppose to be the pleasant interaction in an officer's day (that's what we all grand stand anyway). We should act like it.

LEOs deal with horrible people and run in crisis mode all day(or night) long. It isn't a high bar, gentlemen, clear it.