Coronavirus Epidemic, Part 2

[Texas42]

Yes and no.

My understanding is that viruses do inject their genome into specific cells their external proteins/spikes are "keyed" for.... Covid primarily infects respiratory cells.

Do they "alter" your DNA.... well, no. Of course not. Not as a whole. If that were possible, the Aryans would have been able to create the race of blond haired blue eyed muscled speedsters they desire. But actual gene therapy is a reality used to treat certain genetic diseases by targeting specific cells in a similar way to how other viruses target cells.

Do viruses alter the DNA of the cells they infect.... sort of, but not the cell's original DNA. What they do, and each type of virus uses diff methods, is command the cytoplasm, proteins, etc inside the cell to produce copies of themselves, creating extra DNA/RNA. Does this alter the DNA of the cell? Not unless you consider the new DNA/RNA to belong to the cell. But even then, once viral load is achieved, the cell sheds the new viral DNA/RNA thru lyctic process or budding. The lytic process destroys the cell, and the body gets rid of them, so once again, no it doesn't change your native DNA. The new virus particles (DNA or RNA) go on to infect other cells. Enough lyctic damage to your lungs and other organs, and you die.

It is worth noting that Coronavirus SARS II is a single strand RNA virus. These reproduce themselves in the cell's cytoplasm.

FWIW: https://www.bioexplorer.net/how-do-viruses-reproduce.html/

Upon further review. You are correct. Adenoviruses don’t insert their DNA into the host genome. Some other viruses do.



Now some venting.

I’ve seen plenty of torn up lungs. . . Yeah thats not going to get better. People that stay hospitalized, then get readmitted and get worse after they get better. I dispise how working in the hospital has been. How most specialists don’t want to actually see covid+ patients, how many of my coworkers just want to call them. How the hospital has kept patients isolated from family while there. I’ve gotten really good at reading CT PE’s looking for clots. I’ve seen plenty. I hate how resident and medial student education has taken a serious hit the last year.

The majority of the studies don’t support any teatment to other than supportive care.

I fucking hate COVID.

Yeah. I’ll take the vaccine.

There. I’m done. Night y’all. Stay safe.

 

[candcallen]

 

[DubiousDan]

I know thalidomide is still prescribed today. It was years before they "realized" the side effects for pregnant women. I know mrna has been researched for decades. I also know the "potential" for cancer therapy. So tell me how many successful mrna vaccines are out there. I haven't kept up with the literature so you could be correct they have been working on a sars mrna vaccine. They have also been working on other mrna vaccines with varied results. You want to receive a mrna vaccine for ebola then go volunteer to help at the next outbreak? It's odd, imo, multiple companies figured the mrna formula out for covid on demand. Again, just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I am enjoying my vodak.

My understanding is that Big Pharma was unwilling to fund the research needed to fully develope a SARS or MERS vaccine because there weren't affected by it to make it profitable. There just not enough dollars going into the research until codid 19 came along and Trump poured billions into the research. They may have been close with SARS but SARS kinda petered out so maybe they just didn't bother with trials of the SARS vaccine. I think I also read that the various companies were sharing information which would have helped speed things up. I'm not sure about that.

Take a shot of that vodak for me. I don't partake anymore.

 

[bbbass]

Now some venting.

I’ve seen plenty of torn up lungs. . . Yeah thats not going to get better. People that stay hospitalized, then get readmitted and get worse after they get better. I dispise how working in the hospital has been. How most specialists don’t want to actually see covid+ patients, how many of my coworkers just want to call them. How the hospital has kept patients isolated from family while there. I’ve gotten really good at reading CT PE’s looking for clots. I’ve seen plenty. I hate how resident and medial student education has taken a serious hit the last year.

The majority of the studies don’t support any teatment to other than supportive care.

There was talk of controlling the late stage inflammatory response that the body mounts... know anything about that?

 

[RoadRunner]

 

[DubiousDan]

Upon further review. You are correct. Adenoviruses don’t insert their DNA into the host genome. Some other viruses do.



Now some venting.

I’ve seen plenty of torn up lungs. . . Yeah thats not going to get better. People that stay hospitalized, then get readmitted and get worse after they get better. I dispise how working in the hospital has been. How most specialists don’t want to actually see covid+ patients, how many of my coworkers just want to call them. How the hospital has kept patients isolated from family while there. I’ve gotten really good at reading CT PE’s looking for clots. I’ve seen plenty. I hate how resident and medial student education has taken a serious hit the last year.

The majority of the studies don’t support any teatment to other than supportive care.

I fucking hate COVID.

Yeah. I’ll take the vaccine.

There. I’m done. Night y’all. Stay safe.

I can't imagine what it's like and I'm glad I retired. When I was in the hospital in October I was BS'ing with one of the nurses and she mentioned that she had only had eight days off since April.

My SIL is a nurse in San Diego and has spent years just working in the GI Lab. Since the outbreak in Nov. they've been making her take shifts on the covid floor and she's exhausted.

A friend works in specialty unit at University Hospital here but he has to pull shifts as a covid nurse. Last October after the July peak had settled University was down to about 20 covid patients. In Dec they had 3 floors of covid patients, 50-60 on each floor.

I can't imagine losing patients day after day with no end in sight. When I lost one of my patients I took it personally as an affront and a failure on my part. Even in the ER I rarely had a patient die in my care though they may have died after leaving the ER.

 

[kbaxter60]

 

[oldag]

It's not the time that's relevant, it's the number of subjects that are tested. In the past it took time and money to test the number of subjects needed to get accurate results. With covid there were many thousands of people eager to be tested. For studies in the past there fewer volunteers and it took longer to get enough subjects to get a good set of data. You may have seen comercials on TV or heard them on the radio, asking for people to do studies and offering to pay them.

It only takes minutes to see if someone is having an allergic reaction. It could take many months to test the number of people need to get enough data to determine the percentage of people who will have a reaction. Fortunately with the covid vaccine there was a lot of public interest in developing the vaccine and a lot of people willing to participate in the study. This was just an example of one of the things they might be looking at.

No, it takes time. Not all issues become evident immediately. Allergic reactions are not the only problem that can come from a vaccine.

The long term efficacy cannot be determined in a short trial.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

This: " The long term efficacy cannot be determined in a short trial. "

There lies the rub...

 

[TAZ]

No, it takes time. Not all issues become evident immediately. Allergic reactions are not the only problem that can come from a vaccine.

The long term efficacy cannot be determined in a short trial.

Neither can long term side effects be properly assessed in short term trials. That’s the biggest issue IMO. Efficacy against a virus with a super high rate of survivability is one thing. Goofy side effects are another level of suck if they start cropping up in a year or two.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

In the Steve Martin movie "The Jerk" his character invented glasses that were a huge hit, until some time passed and all the glasses wearers were made cross eyed...I hope this vaccine doesn't do something similar...or worse.

 

[gll]

Upon further review. You are correct. Adenoviruses don’t insert their DNA into the host genome. Some other viruses do.

~8% of human DNA is of viral origin.

"Genes from ‘fossil’ virus in human DNA found to be active | Newsroom" https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/genes-...rcent of human,genomes when they infect cells.

 

[gll]

Neither can long term side effects be properly assessed in short term trials. That’s the biggest issue IMO. Efficacy against a virus with a super high rate of survivability is one thing. Goofy side effects are another level of suck if they start cropping up in a year or two.

If the side effects are just goofy, nobody around here may even notice...

 

[gll]

The coronavirus may sometimes slip its genetic material into human chromosomes—but what does that mean?

"The coronavirus may sometimes slip its genetic material into human chromosomes—but what does that mean? | Science | AAAS" https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...tic-material-human-chromosomes-what-does-mean

Some might consider this a good reason to get the vaccine...

 

[DubiousDan]

This: " The long term efficacy cannot be determined in a short trial. "

There lies the rub...

Then what? How long do you want to to wait? 2yrs, 4yrs, 10 yrs? While survivability is high the case rate is also very high. Thousands of people per day are dying from it mad many more will suffer long term effects. If the efficacy is just a year what difference does it make if you need a yearly booster if you can save many thousands of lives?

SARS had case fatality rate of 9·7% but there were less than 10,000 cases reported world wide. While the covid death rate is lower it's rate of transmission is much higher and over 2.6 Million reported deaths worldwide.

SARS case fatality rate of 9·7% less than 500 died from SARS

covid case fatality rate 1-3% over 2.6 million died from covid so far

 

[gll]

Then what? How long do you want to to wait? 2yrs, 4yrs, 10 yrs?

Maybe 2 years..., if Covid is still a thang at all then.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

DD,

Trust, but verify, eh?

How long to wait?

Some folks won't be waiting as they don't knee jerk accept the safety of a rushed to market vaccine.

Now, is it a seriously bad gamble to wait?

Maybe...maybe not.

Some of us have our opinion that differs from others.

That's what used to considered 'the norm' here in our one time free country.

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, socially isolate or not, get the vaccine or don't. It's my decision...

Why don't I trust what I'm fed by the likes of 'da fooch' or creepy old bidet - nope, don't have to and if my actions cause my death...it's my death.

 

[innominate]

In the Steve Martin movie "The Jerk" his character invented glasses that were a huge hit, until some time passed and all the glasses wearers were made cross eyed...I hope this vaccine doesn't do something similar...or worse.

He hates these cans! Stay away from the cans.

 

[rotor]

DD,

Trust, but verify, eh?

How long to wait?

Some folks won't be waiting as they don't knee jerk accept the safety of a rushed to market vaccine.

Now, is it a seriously bad gamble to wait?

Maybe...maybe not.

Some of us have our opinion that differs from others.

That's what used to considered 'the norm' here in our one time free country.

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, socially isolate or not, get the vaccine or don't. It's my decision...

Why don't I trust what I'm fed by the likes of 'da fooch' or creepy old bidet - nope, don't have to and if my actions cause my death...it's my death.

You are right. Life is a gamble. Your option to wait and see. I have no problem with you waiting to decide. Unless Biden makes it a requirement which I doubt and am against. My wife and I decided vaccine was right for us. Life is a gamble. What’s the odds getting killed on a lawnmower? Small but real. Everything has a risk. I rode motorcycles when I was young. No more.

 

[bbbass]

"The coronavirus may sometimes slip its genetic material into human chromosomes—but what does that mean? | Science | AAAS" https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...tic-material-human-chromosomes-what-does-mean

Thx for the interesting article. Just shows how much we don't know, and how little the general public gets educated on the specifics of disease.

Virologist Melanie Ott, who studies HIV at the Gladstone Institute of Virology and Immunology, says the findings are “pretty provocative” but need thorough follow-up and confirmation. “I have no doubt that reverse transcription can happen in vitro with optimized conditions,” Ott says. But she notes that SARS-CoV-2 RNA replication takes place in specialized compartments in the cytoplasm. “Whether it happens in infected cells and … leads to significant integration in the cell nucleus is another question.”

Retrovirologist John Coffin of Tufts University calls the new work “believable,” noting that solid evidence shows that LINE-1 RT can allow viral material to integrate in people, but he’s not yet convinced. The evidence of SARS-CoV-2 sequences in people, Coffin says, “should be more solid,” and the in vitro experiments conducted by Jaenisch’s team lack controls he would have liked to have seen. “All in all, I doubt that the phenomenon has much biological relevance, despite the authors’ speculation,” Coffin says.

Zandrea Ambrose, a retrovirologist at the University of Pittsburgh, adds that this kind of integration would be “extremely rare” if it does indeed happen. She notes that LINE-1 elements in the human genome rarely are active. “It is not clear what the activity would be in different primary cell types that are infected by SARS-CoV-2,” she says.

One particularly harsh Twitter critic, a postdoctoral researcher in a lab that specializes in retroviruses, went so far as to call the preprint’s conclusions “a strong, dangerous, and largely unsupported claim.” Jaenisch emphasizes that the paper clearly states the integration the authors think happens could not lead to the production of infectious SARS-CoV-2. “Let’s assume that we can really resolve these criticisms fully, which I’m trying to do,” Jaenisch says. “This might be something not to worry about.”