Decision time!

[ZX9RCAM]

The memorial service we went to when we got covid about 10 weeks ago, 6 vaccinated people got sick.

A son of the man whose service it was, he also was vaccinated, passed away in the hospital.

 

[rotor]

Your 50K number of deaths from rabies is the global number. Even the CDC states only about 2 deaths a years from rabies since the 1960's.

CDC - Rabies in the U.S. - Rabies

www.cdc.gov

So why would anyone think that vaccinating the population of a country with over 326 Million people, with a death rate of two people a year, be a good idea?

Rotor, I have to say, the more I am reading of your posts about vaccinations, and getting them, the weaker your argument for them gets.

And yes, forcing anyone for any reason to get vaccinated, is an infringement upon our freedoms.

What I do with my body, and what goes into it, should always be my choice. And using fear or intimidation to coerce people into complying with a vaccine is wrong.

And if you can't see that, then you either have no value of what freedom is, or you have a failure to understand what freedom is. Either is really sad.

I didn't claim the rabies cases were the U.S. I also didn't use the Covid deaths vs the population of the U.S. like you did. Covid mortality is based on the percentage of people with the disease that die, not the entire population.

I didn't suggest that American get vaccinated against rabies. I didn't suggest forcing anyone to get vaccinated. I believe in Darwin. You understand what I mean? Natural selection will decide which members of the species survive. Those that have the intellect to choose when to vaccinate (or not) survive. Those that have some immunological defense to infections survive. You get bitten by a rabid animal and refuse the vaccines you will not survive. Yes there have been a few but winning the lottery is more likely.
Let me know when you find something that I have commented on that is not truthful and accurate.

 

[Axxe55]

I didn't claim the rabies cases were the U.S. I also didn't use the Covid deaths vs the population of the U.S. like you did. Covid mortality is based on the percentage of people with the disease that die, not the entire population.

I didn't suggest that American get vaccinated against rabies. I didn't suggest forcing anyone to get vaccinated. I believe in Darwin. You understand what I mean? Natural selection will decide which members of the species survive. Those that have the intellect to choose when to vaccinate (or not) survive. Those that have some immunological defense to infections survive. You get bitten by a rabid animal and refuse the vaccines you will not survive. Yes there have been a few but winning the lottery is more likely.
Let me know when you find something that I have commented on that is not truthful and accurate.

And I also stated that I might have been incorrect in how I stated the Covid mortality rate in a previous post. But the underlying message was that it was still a very low number of deaths in the United States.

Whether a person gets vaccinated or not, IMO should be a personal decision, and not one forced upon someone as condition or retaining their job. That is extortion, pure and simple. Would you care for the definition of extortion?

Definition of extortion​

1: the act or practice of extorting especially money or other property especially : the offense committed by an official engaging in such practice
2: something extorted especially : a gross overcharge

Forcing or coercing someone into compliance as means or method to retain a job, is IMO extortion, because the job has a specified value.

That Rotor, isn't freedom of choice. And when too many people are comfortable with that concept, or just blindly accept it, then they have lost the understanding of the value of freedom, or they never understood what it means in the first place.

 

[easy rider]

I didn't claim the rabies cases were the U.S. I also didn't use the Covid deaths vs the population of the U.S. like you did. Covid mortality is based on the percentage of people with the disease that die, not the entire population.

I didn't suggest that American get vaccinated against rabies. I didn't suggest forcing anyone to get vaccinated. I believe in Darwin. You understand what I mean? Natural selection will decide which members of the species survive. Those that have the intellect to choose when to vaccinate (or not) survive. Those that have some immunological defense to infections survive. You get bitten by a rabid animal and refuse the vaccines you will not survive. Yes there have been a few but winning the lottery is more likely.
Let me know when you find something that I have commented on that is not truthful and accurate.

There were many states that put sick patients in nursing homes, five that kept putting them in when it came apparent that it was killing off the elderly. None of those governors were named Darwin.

Now let's talk numbers. That .057% deaths I mentioned is a period of over a year and a half now. An overwhelming percentage is 'with' COVID, meaning they died from something else, but had COVID. Due to the fact hospitals were receiving more money if they had more COVID patients, they were even testing DOA's for COVID. PCR testing was the main testing used, and still is in many places, yet even the WHO has admitted to PCR being a faulty practice. What are the real numbers in all this? Who knows? They'll never admit to being at fault though.

 

[rotor]

And I also stated that I might have been incorrect in how I stated the Covid mortality rate in a previous post. But the underlying message was that it was still a very low number of deaths in the United States.

Whether a person gets vaccinated or not, IMO should be a personal decision, and not one forced upon someone as condition or retaining their job. That is extortion, pure and simple. Would you care for the definition of extortion?

Definition of extortion​

1: the act or practice of extorting especially money or other property especially : the offense committed by an official engaging in such practice
2: something extorted especially : a gross overcharge

Forcing or coercing someone into compliance as means or method to retain a job, is IMO extortion, because the job has a specified value.

That Rotor, isn't freedom of choice. And when too many people are comfortable with that concept, or just blindly accept it, then they have lost the understanding of the value of freedom, or they never understood what it means in the first place.

What an employer does is up to the employer. I hate to see them do this as a condition of employment. Just as I hate to see a business owner have the right to put up 30.05/06/07 signs which potentially put me at risk if I decide to enter their establishment. I have always stated that self defense and survival is more important than property owner/business rights. If I recall you were a big proponent of property rights but I am not going to backtrack to investigate.
As many say on these posts though, you have the right to not shop at that business and you have the right to not work at that business. It is easier to not shop than to give up your employment. I have worked at facilities that required proof of immunization so I understand the concept. Don't accuse me of being part of the extortion. For me it has been easy in that I wanted to be vaccinated. I do not want to be unarmed when shopping.

 

[Axxe55]

What an employer does is up to the employer. I hate to see them do this as a condition of employment. Just as I hate to see a business owner have the right to put up 30.05/06/07 signs which potentially put me at risk if I decide to enter their establishment. I have always stated that self defense and survival is more important than property owner/business rights. If I recall you were a big proponent of property rights but I am not going to backtrack to investigate.
As many say on these posts though, you have the right to not shop at that business and you have the right to not work at that business. It is easier to not shop than to give up your employment. I have worked at facilities that required proof of immunization so I understand the concept. Don't accuse me of being part of the extortion. For me it has been easy in that I wanted to be vaccinated. I do not want to be unarmed when shopping.

There is a huge difference between shopping and working. And yes, I'm a huge proponent of property rights. A property owner should be able to dictate the conditions and requirements in order to enter into that establishment.

Don't like being unarmed, then shop somewhere else. It's really that simple. But people have to work in order to survive and support their families. So forcing an employee to comply with getting a vaccine they may oppose in order to retain employment, is wrong and IMO a violation of a person's freedoms.

Would I quit a job rather than being forced to comply with getting vaccinated? Damn right I would! But, I also know others are not in the same circumstances that I am, and are between a rock and hard place with needing to retain their job. And ANY employer that is holding that threat over their employees to comply, is wrong.

 

[rotor]

There were many states that put sick patients in nursing homes, five that kept putting them in when it came apparent that it was killing off the elderly. None of those governors were named Darwin.

Now let's talk numbers. That .057% deaths I mentioned is a period of over a year and a half now. An overwhelming percentage is 'with' COVID, meaning they died from something else, but had COVID. Due to the fact hospitals were receiving more money if they had more COVID patients, they were even testing DOA's for COVID. PCR testing was the main testing used, and still is in many places, yet even the WHO has admitted to PCR being a faulty practice. What are the real numbers in all this? Who knows? They'll never admit to being at fault though.

So sue Gov. Cuomo. Not something I would do if I had the power. You and I use statistics any way we want to. But I assume we both take our numbers from the same sources, I may be wrong though. Let's just leave it at if you want the vaccine get it and if not don't get it. No mandates. As far as taking a pill every day, when you get as old as I am you take 6 pills a day and need one of those little pill dispensers.

 

[rotor]

There is a huge difference between shopping and working. And yes, I'm a huge proponent of property rights. A property owner should be able to dictate the conditions and requirements in order to enter into that establishment.

Don't like being unarmed, then shop somewhere else. It's really that simple. But people have to work in order to survive and support their families. So forcing an employee to comply with getting a vaccine they may oppose in order to retain employment, is wrong and IMO a violation of a person's freedoms.

Would I quit a job rather than being forced to comply with getting vaccinated? Damn right I would! But, I also know others are not in the same circumstances that I am, and are between a rock and hard place with needing to retain their job. And ANY employer that is holding that threat over their employees to comply, is wrong.

You don't see the discrepancy here? The business owner keeping me from bringing in a firearm to possible save my life (or not enter), or his ability to tell his employees to mask up and get vaccinated or be fired? He has a right to control me but not his employee's?

 

[Axxe55]

You don't see the discrepancy here? The business owner keeping me from bringing in a firearm to possible save my life (or not enter), or his ability to tell his employees to mask up and get vaccinated or be fired? He has a right to control me but not his employee's?

Please for the record, tell us any place you are forced to disarm in order to shop?

Because there are options. I can't speak as to what places in the town where you live that force you to disarm to comply with the law, regarding the carrying of firearms, but in our town, even with the passing of September 1st, I'm not seeing any differences in the prohibiting of firearms within the premises of business'. Very few even have any such signage at all.

And even if they did, the vast majority of anything I might need, or want is available online and can be delivered to my home. I never have to disarm to shop online!

Complaining about a business posting a sign, prohibiting the carrying of firearms, just doesn't have any merit IMO. Just another excuse to complain.

 

[glenbo]

I posted this either in this thread or somewhere else, but here's a great place to show just bad the vaccine is:

BOMBSHELL UK data destroys entire premise for vaccine push

The media can read just as well as me (maybe), but somehow it is left to me to report this.

chriswaldburger.substack.com

 

[jrbfishn]

So sue Gov. Cuomo. Not something I would do if I had the power. You and I use statistics any way we want to. But I assume we both take our numbers from the same sources, I may be wrong though. Let's just leave it at if you want the vaccine get it and if not don't get it. No mandates. As far as taking a pill every day, when you get as old as I am you take 6 pills a day and need one of those little pill dispensers.

You use "statistics" in the manner you want. An honest person uses the numbers. They don't lie. Unless they are padded like the Covid numbers. The Covid numbers included actual Covid deaths. Along with possible deaths, pneumonia and influenza deaths.
What you are afraid of is a lie. You actually have far more chance of dieing from a bunch of other things than Covid.
Fear is a terrible thing.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[easy rider]

I know this may be a little off topic, but I just came up with an idea for a dystopian movie:

It starts out at an economics conference in, say Davos, Switzerland. Now this is attended by the leaders of businesses, say big tech, pharma etc. Also many representatives of various countries. During this conference they talk about climate change and the effects of over population. Also at this conference many of those in attendance form an organization that will deal with future epidemics, and although the person they put in charge of this organization doesn't have any background in medicines or dealing with disasters, she's loyal.

Flash forward about five years, and lo and behold, there's an epidemic, or pandemic since it spreads worldwide. Pharmaceutical companies race to come up with a vaccine, but in the interest of selling their product off quickly they fast track some testing and skip others all together. The woman put in charge of that organization formed about five years ago, is now put in charge of distributing this vaccine throughout the United States.

I'm still working on how this plays out, but was wondering if this sounds a bit far fetched so far?

 

[msharley]

I know this may be a little off topic, but I just came up with an idea for a dystopian movie:

It starts out at an economics conference in, say Davos, Switzerland. Now this is attended by the leaders of businesses, say big tech, pharma etc. Also many representatives of various countries. During this conference they talk about climate change and the effects of over population. Also at this conference many of those in attendance form an organization that will deal with future epidemics, and although the person they put in charge of this organization doesn't have any background in medicines or dealing with disasters, she's loyal.

Flash forward about five years, and lo and behold, there's an epidemic, or pandemic since it spreads worldwide. Pharmaceutical companies race to come up with a vaccine, but in the interest of selling their product off quickly they fast track some testing and skip others all together. The woman put in charge of that organization formed about five years ago, is now put in charge of distributing this vaccine throughout the United States.

I'm still working on how this plays out, but was wondering if this sounds a bit far fetched so far?

Hey ER,

Nah......but...............we all will be a ...............

"CIRCLING BACK" to it......

 

[oldag]

You keep arguing the give up your freedom argument. My only argument is that I think the vaccines have value and work and you don't. So, use your freedom to not get the vaccine. Doesn't bother me at all. I only question the validity of your arguments which I think are not valid. Like the argument that needing a booster makes the vaccine a no go. Not a good argument. Find some better ones.

Please give a direct answer to one question.

Will long term effects will show up in three or four years from the mRNA vaccines?

 

[oldag]

I could put you on ignore but you might have a valid point at some time in the future. I can pull the ad hominem argument too as far as my reading comprehension and your welding teaching. Come up with a valid argument for not taking a vaccine and I would like to hear it. All of the HIV positive people taking a "pill" every day to stay alive, although not ideal, seem to be accepting it.

Here is a valid argument. This vaccine was rushed to market, the trials were drastically short cut. As a result, no one knows if there will be any long term detrimental effects.

For those highly vulnerable, the risk may well be worth it. For those who are healthy? Not in any risk assessment I can come up with.

 

[rotor]

Here is a valid argument. This vaccine was rushed to market, the trials were drastically short cut. As a result, no one knows if there will be any long term detrimental effects.

For those highly vulnerable, the risk may well be worth it. For those who are healthy? Not in any risk assessment I can come up with.

Those are valid arguments. We shall see.

 

[jrbfishn]

Here is a valid argument. This vaccine was rushed to market, the trials were drastically short cut. As a result, no one knows if there will be any long term detrimental effects.

For those highly vulnerable, the risk may well be worth it. For those who are healthy? Not in any risk assessment I can come up with.

Those are valid arguments. We shall see.

There lies one of the biggest problems.
With the track record of big pharma and our government bureaucracy for honesty and integrity, the possibilities of " We shall see" are far worse than than the illness.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[easy rider]

Senior Trump HHS COVID Advisor, this may help the OP in his decision (Remember, the choice is yours, don't let anyone make it for you):

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

I couldn't understand because of the doctor's (difficult for me) accent.

So, can anyone give a thumbnail sketch of what he said?

Thanks!

 

[innominate]

With ~ only half of the population vaccinated can companies really afford to mandate vaccination? Or are they just thinking employees will comply for fear of losing their job?