Failure to ID.......

[ScottDLS]

1. If you are engaged in an activity that requires a license such as driving a car, hunting, carrying a firearm, etc., then you must provide your license if asked. LE does not need probable cause for anything.
2. If you are not doing anything that requires a license and you have not been arrested, you do not have to provide ID to LE. Exception: Texas Education Code states that you must ID to LE if asked, if you are on a school campus.
3. If you are arrested, you must identify yourself to LE.
4. If you lie about your identification to LE when being questioned, you can be arrested.

1. If you are engaged in such an activity, you do NOT need to engage with a police officer AT ALL to include identifying yourself. In order to detain you for questioning a police officer must have a reasonable, articulable suspicion, that you are committing, or are about to commit a crime.

Simply engaging in an activity that requires a license is not sufficient suspicion to detain you. Eg. Detaining you because you are walking down the sidewalk openly carrying a handgun in a holster. Driving down the road obeying all traffic laws.

In any case, even a detention is not an arrest, therefore you do not need to identify yourself unless you are arrested. Arrest requires probable cause to believe that a crime is/was committed, this is a higher standard than reasonable suspicion needed for a detention.

In order to stop someone who is driving, an officer must have probable cause that a crime is being committed (speeding, improper equipment, no registration, etc.). Granted, this is easier given the myriad traffic offenses in the code.

Once stopped for a traffic offense, the person is technically under arrest until the stop is complete, so must provide ID, or face an additional class C misdemeanor.

2. If asked to ID on a school campus and you refuse, you can be ejected. However, it is not a crime.

3. If lawfully arrested you must identify yourself, or you are subject to being charged with a class C misdemeanor. If you give a false or fictitious name, Class B.

4. If you give a false or fictitious name:
WHEN
(1) lawfully arrested the person;
(2) lawfully detained the person; or
(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

you commit a Class B misdemeanor. Otherwise no crime is committed.

 

[Reinz]

Hell, I just hand over my f-ing ID rather than learn these longass nerdy statutes.

I‘ve got nothing to hide.

 

[deemus]

Not sure if I am doing it right or wrong, but I've never been asked for my ID when I wasn't in my car.

 

[innominate]

Hell, I just hand over my f-ing ID rather than learn these longass nerdy statutes.

I‘ve got nothing to hide.

Thank you for your compliance. Now if you would just step into this room for a shower.....

 

[Caliber]

ScottDLS, your are correct in regards to the Texas Penal Code, but you are incorrect in regards to the Texas Transportation Code (TTC). If you are driving, both sets of laws apply. According to the TTC (only), if you are driving, you're required to have a DL. If LE observes you operating a motor vehicle, he can ask you for your DL. Interestingly, if LE stops you while you're driving, he/she asks for your driver's license, not your social security card or any other form of ID. It just so happens that your DL contains all of the information the LE needs to check you out. It sound weird, but that's the way it works

 

[Axxe55]

ScottDLS, your are correct in regards to the Texas Penal Code, but you are incorrect in regards to the Texas Transportation Code (TTC). If you are driving, both sets of laws apply. According to the TTC (only), if you are driving, you're required to have a DL. If LE observes you operating a motor vehicle, he can ask you for your DL. Interestingly, if LE stops you while you're driving, he/she asks for your driver's license, not your social security card or any other form of ID. It just so happens that your DL contains all of the information the LE needs to check you out. It sound weird, but that's the way it works.

Just curious, how many times have YOU been stopped and asked for DL when obeying all traffic codes, and all vehicle standards are up to specification?

My experience and observations, cops have more important things to worry about that just stopping lawful drivers to check out their ID or DL for no reason.

 

[Texas45]

IF you ain’t doing anything illegal and arent wanted for past illegal activities why is it a big deal to show LE your ID.

Causes me absolutely no heartburn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cycleguy2300]

Hell, I just hand over my f-ing ID rather than learn these longass nerdy statutes.

I‘ve got nothing to hide.

I have nothing to hide either, but KNOWING your rights is important.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[rotor]

IF you ain’t doing anything illegal and arent wanted for past illegal activities why is it a big deal to show LE your ID.

Causes me absolutely no heartburn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For the same reason you don't allow a search of your house without a warrant. People who allow such illegal searches are the true sheepie.

 

[Caliber]

Here's more information regarding my comments from an attorney: https://fairlawpllc.com/texas-failure-to-id-laws-pt1/

 

[Axxe55]

Years ago, if a cop asked to search my vehicle, I had nothing to hide, so I would let them. Because of something that happened to a guy that worked at the same place as I did, I don't anymore. He allowed a cop to search his car, and got busted for drugs.

Okay, big deal, right? Wrong. They weren't his drugs, and knew nothing about them being there. Sure!

Long story short. He bought the car off a used car dealer a few days prior to the search and arrest. Car previously was owned and traded in by a guy that had a lengthy history of selling and possessing drugs. Cops were well acquainted with the guy. They knew his vehicles, or thought they did.

The guy is headed home one night and gets stopped. Cop runs his DL, and asks if he can search the vehicle. Guy says sure, go for it. Cop finds drugs up under the carpet under the front seat of the car. Guy gets arrested for drug possession. Goes to jail. Car gets impounded. Guy has to get bailed out of jail. Has to hire an attorney to sort out this mess. Guy had no criminal record at all prior to this arrest. A few minor traffic infractions was all.

To make a long story short. IIRC it took him about a year to get the mess sorted out with the DA, the cops, and who knows what else.

But after hearing his story about that incident, nope, no search warrant, no search. I don't do illegal things. I have nothing to hide, but, I know my rights.

 

[smw66]

They ask for your ID for the same reason that they drive around on patrol and run license plates on their computers when they are driving down the road. They are looking for wants and warrants on the owner who is probably the driver. That's really what the cops want your ID for in most cases.

 

[Axxe55]

They ask for your ID for the same reason that they drive around on patrol and run license plates on their computers when they are driving down the road. They are looking for wants and warrants on the owner who is probably the driver. That's really what the cops want your ID for in most cases.

How ya doing Gambler? We knew you'd be back!

 

[EZ-E]

Just curious, how many times have YOU been stopped and asked for DL when obeying all traffic codes, and all vehicle standards are up to specification?

My experience and observations, cops have more important things to worry about that just stopping lawful drivers to check out their ID or DL for no reason.

Growing up, there were 2 local cops that always harassed us & pulled us over.
Usually for ... license plate bulb is out.... hmm seems to be working fine now.

Also driving my buddy home & leaving the neighborhood at midnight. Not speeding or doing any thing wrong.

These cops are the same types that pull you over for driving while black.
They have no reason other than to harass you & hopefully find something on you.

 

[benenglish]

My experience and observations, cops have more important things to worry about that just stopping lawful drivers to check out their ID or DL for no reason.

They have no reason other than to harass you & hopefully find something on you.

Every member of my family, including me, has been pulled over while doing everything lawfully. In my case, the officer wanted to know why I was in that area. In the case of my mom and sis, they've been pulled over multiple times for being out driving too late at night. In all those cases, the police didn't even run the license; they looked at it, listened to why we were there, and sent us on our way.

Those experiences are decades old, btw. Maybe things are different now.

 

[innominate]

I've been pretty lucky when I have been stopped over the years. Was stopped for speeding in a school zone when I was in college in the early 90's. I was argumentative with the officer. He started losing his $#!+. I was thinking I'm about to go to jail. I started saying yes sir, no sir etc. I didn't even get a ticket. I don't know what the hell happened.

Around the same time I was driving my friends gf's mustang late one night. My buddy, his girl and my girlfriend were in the car. I was sober but the girls, under 21, were in the back with an, OK a few, open containers. Got stopped for speeding. I'm at the officers car. He's asking me about the mustang. I tell him, no sir, it's just a 4 banger. His partner is at our vehicle talking to my friends. My father was a deputy sheriff but he would have never used connections to get me out of a jam. But I asked the officer if he knew my dad. He calls out to his partner "Hey, you know $@#$."‽ He replies, "Yeah, I know $@#$." The officer replies, "This is his son". Partner, "Well, he can't be that bad" Next thing you know we're driving off in the shitty 4 banger mustang.

 

[deemus]

When cops would look at my license, they would say, " are you little Joe Policeman?"

"YES I AM!"

I was 33 before I got my first ticket after I moved to DFW. All the guys I got pulled over by knew my dad (a cop) and they would always tell me, "you better slow down boy or I'm gonna tell your daddy on you....."

"Yes sir, will do!"

And off I went.

 

[ScottDLS]

ScottDLS, your are correct in regards to the Texas Penal Code, but you are incorrect in regards to the Texas Transportation Code (TTC). If you are driving, both sets of laws apply. According to the TTC (only), if you are driving, you're required to have a DL. If LE observes you operating a motor vehicle, he can ask you for your DL. Interestingly, if LE stops you while you're driving, he/she asks for your driver's license, not your social security card or any other form of ID. It just so happens that your DL contains all of the information the LE needs to check you out. It sound weird, but that's the way it works

You make a very good point about the Transportation Code and am aware that Texas says that you must show your DL if requested even with no reason. But let me ask this. What if you don't stop? By turning on the lights and pulling you over, the police officer is detaining you or arguably given previous cases in Texas, arresting you. The officer has no lawful authority to detain (stop) you or arrest you absent reasonable suspicion or probable cause, respectively. So while the TTC says an officer can pull you over just to check to see if you have a license (absent any other reason), this violates SCOTUS precedent and was held (federally) to be an unlawful violation of your 4th amendment rights. Since it is so easy to come up with a plausible suspicion of some traffic violation this may seem a distinction without a difference, but it is technically unlawful for an officer to stop you, just to see if you have a license.

 

[motorcarman]

You cannot be arrested in Texas for minor Speeding violation, Open Alcohol Container and Use of Portable Wireless Communication Device for Electronic Messaging.(citations only)

 

[Sasquatch]

Brown Vs. Texas, 1979

Brown v. Texas, 443 U.S. 47 (1979)

Brown v. Texas

supreme.justia.com

Worth reading and knowing how it applies to police interactions. If the police have reasonable suspicion you have committed or are going to commit a crime, their stops are lawful. They can't legally just stop you to ID you because you're on the street or otherwise engaged in a legal activity. We're not 1939 Germany (yet.) At the very least they need a pretext for stopping you - the traffic code is enough for almost any reason to stop a vehicle, but then they can generally only require ID of the driver, and not of the passengers, as the passenger's ID's are not pertinent to the safe operation of the vehicle, except maybe in the case of a driver operating on an instructional permit, and required to have a licensed driver in the front passenger seat with them.

Otherwise they need to be able to articulate a reason for the stop like

- you fit the description of a suspect or known wanted person
- your behavior of out ordinary for the area / situation
- they observed actions or behavior that would lead them to believe you have committed a crime or are about to commit a crime

The courts have repeatedly ruled that RAS is needed to stop someone, and that a mere hunch isn't enough. RAS is a reasonably low bar that *if* someone needs stopped an observant officer should be able to articulate it. To stop someone without it would jeopardize any case that arises from the stop.

Can The Police Pull Me Over For No Reason?

It has happened to most people: You’re driving along — maybe belting out the lyrics to your favorite song that just came on the radio — when you see red and

www.brodenmickelsen.com

Ultimately - what happens on the street doesn't always jive with what the law and courts allow, and trying your case on the street rarely works out for the individual citizen. Its easier to keep your interaction respectful and brief with the police, without giving them unnecessary information. The phrase "you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride" didn't just come from nowhere.