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Handgun Open Carry- Where Do You Stand
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Haha. I just went back to see what I had posted that got that kind of responce. "asking for their license" was a poor choice of words.
The point that it was trying to convey was with an unrestricted open carry law, you can't tell the bad guys from the good guys. As of today with concealed carry if someone is openly carrying they are a peace officer, the bad guy, or a poorly concealed CHL holder.
This makes walking into a store and becoming aware of your surroundings much easier and you have a lot less people to watch. AKA situational awareness. For the untrained like most CHL holders will be this is in their favor. Therefore I'm more pro CHL then open.
Also open carry would make it a lot easier for the bad guys to case a place and wait for the open carry guy to leave.
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As for the "ask for their license?" I'll admit that was a poor way to say what Big dipper pointed out. It absolutely depends on how you approach the situation. I would not go busting in and demanding anything. As a fellow CHL holder I'd let you know you were showing or printing and I'd hope you would appreciate the tip. I have done this in the past and I have had it done to me. It greatly depends on the settings and I would not attempt that just anywhere.At that point I guess the outcome will depend on the facts and your style of confrontation.
"HEY, you, open carry is illegal! Show me your papers. I have a gun and will stop you if you don't comply."
"Excuse me sir, is there a valid reason that your gun is in a holster out in the open?"
Hope that the first is not a detective and the second is not the guy about to rob the gas station.
Clearly this does pose some risk as the bad guy could be carrying and it would be hard to tell but as you develop the conversation with him or her you may be able to get that vibe and call the cops.
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Link http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103
Map is referring to open carry of a handgun
Yellow - no permit required
green - permit required
red - no open carry permitted
Kind of sad that TX is on the same playing field as CA and NY on this one.
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Only in Texas. This is not the case in the many states where open carry isn't restricted today.
Watch everyone. Just because there's open carry it doesn't mean there isn't concealed carry, too - lawful and unlawful.
You've mentioned "untrained" twice now. What sort of training are you suggesting and at what frequency? You also seem to believe that carry should require a license and a license require training, true?
Please provide an example of this, documented, from an open carry state today. Also explain how the bad guy would account for concealed carry, as well.
No. There are only 30 or so states with no permit required (that's still a lot). What I was referring to was the bad guy/good guy assumption. With 45 states allowing some sort of handgun open carry, it would be impossible to differentiate, yet they don't seem to have any trouble with bad guys blatantly carrying. Some Texans have trouble with this concept because they don't experience it. As a person that spends significant time in Arkansas, Oklahoma and Colorado I can testify it is a non-issue. Little Rock has a notorious reputation for bad guys, oddly they're not carrying a 1911 on their hip openly.
In the 5 years of receiving at least weekly "crime report on campus" emails, I never read one saying the perp was open carrying, in a permissive state. Points to the old saying "only criminals conceal."
Goofs expect they may have to toss the gun if a pursuit occurs. Wearing a holster makes it tougher to claim "that ain't my gun, man."
Having seen lots of folks open carrying (Utah), it just comes down to glancing to see if anything threatening is going on, and if not, no worries.
Having seen lots of folks open carrying (Utah), it just comes down to glancing to see if anything threatening is going on, and if not, no worries.
Right — you can legally open-carry a knife, or baseball bat, or tire iron. It's when you start threatening people when you cross the line of legality.
Keep dreaming. If a bonehead wants to carry a gun he's not going to give a shit about a license.
I would ask you for your badge. Oh, you're not a cop? Then mind your own fucking business. You are a cop? Am I being detained? Please state your reasonable suspicion for detaining me, because if you have none I'm leaving. Yes, I have said this and followed through with it before. If I talk that way to cops you are most surely not going to fare any better.
You'd better believe I am going to go about my lawful business unimpeded by a nosy little snot like you. You sound like the kind of guy who's going to escalate a situation to the point someone gets needlessly shot.
There would be less/no restrictions to enforce. Simple, yes?
BTW- If a cop can't detain someone just to verify proper licensing, what makes you think you can? You'd better think twice, long and hard about your cavalier attitude toward controlling others or you're going to find out what a REAL arrest looks like when the cops take you in for unlawfully arresting another person. You'll lose your CHL while the rest of us who don't act like clowns get to keep ours. We'll see how brave you are when demanding to see a license after that.
Welcome back, Ponch.
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This is actually the origin of the phrase "Mexican carry." It refers to Mexican revolutionaries who would illegally carry handguns with no holster. That way if they saw possibly suspicious military members ahead, they could ditch the gun, get searched, and not get caught with what is obviously an accessory used for breaking the law.
BTW, because I haven't seen it posted here yet, here are all the legal ways to open carry a handgun in Texas:
(a) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);
(3) is traveling;
Text of subd. (b)(4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,
§ 4
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other
sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is
conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's
residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
These activities do not require a CHL so there would be none to produce in the case of nosy dictator wannabes.
(a) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);
(3) is traveling;
Text of subd. (b)(4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,
§ 4
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other
sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is
conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's
residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
These activities do not require a CHL so there would be none to produce in the case of nosy dictator wannabes.
So, not to disagree, but the law (Govt Code 411.205) does still require you to produce both DL/ID and CHL when asked by any peace officer/magistrate for any reason IF you are carrying a weapon. The twist is that there's no penalty for violating this requirement.
On a "I saw your weapon 'print'" investigative detention, your detention shouldn't be anything beyond proving out you have a CHL to negate PC for UCW (carrying unlicensed). At that point, PC/RS for UCW (an actual offense) no longer exist and you SHOULD be free to go. The twist is, to do that, you have to actually produce the ID/CHL at that point.
I honestly don't know if "I saw his handgun print and didn't know if he was UCW or CHL, so I checked" would or wouldn't hold up as reasonable suspicion, since it would be reasonable to assume that someone carrying concealed had a CHL in Texas except that such a small percentage of the population has one, the courts could easily interpret "reasonable" to mean it's okay to stop and check.
Personally, I don't worry about it. If I print, I screwed up... especially to the point of PD getting involved, so producing ID/CHL to end the encounter works for me.
Otherwise, you are technically required to produce both any time you're asked for ID if you're carrying (e.g. traffic stop), there's just nothing they can charge you with if you don't.
Seriously.....what color is the sky in your world!? once again, I encourage you to read the Constitution, it'll tell you everything you need to know!
sent from wait....where am I!?
Yes. It's a very Constitutionally questionable requirement. As for the rest, your guess is as good as mine!
Only if you have a CHL.
Saltyag2010
TGT Addict
London's bringing the straight fire.
If there was open carry with certification I wouldn't have a problem showing an officer my credentials. Cops have guns too and I don't like bullet holes inside myself.
As far as other people asking if I had a gun I would ask them to please give me space and get the hell away from that situation.
If there was open carry with certification I wouldn't have a problem showing an officer my credentials. Cops have guns too and I don't like bullet holes inside myself.
As far as other people asking if I had a gun I would ask them to please give me space and get the hell away from that situation.
They'll sort it out, alright:
Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day: Ronald Williams | The Truth About Guns
