I see why Hollywood is afraid of firearms - Alec Baldwin kills set employee

[Axxe55]

I think if his politics were right wing, the left would be calling for his head and most of you who bring up his politics in the course of assigning blame would suddenly be defending him.

We should avoid ignoring facts or circumstances just to find excise to dislike someone we dislike even more. And we need to recognize CONVENTIONS like checking a firearm's load status are CONVENTIONS. Good idea? Sure, but we know that because we're gun folk. I don't expect a civilian (queue the butthurt) to stand to the side of a door when they knock like I do because they are not in the same business as me.

I don't think Baldwin acted criminally, based on what I have heard about common practice of movie safety. Could things have been done to prevent this? Yes. But he hired an expert to make sure things were safe and THAT person bears the blame IMO, much more so that Baldwin.

I think the master of arms may have acted recklessly, possibly to the extent of a crime, but we still don't know all that much beyond rumors.

Civilly, I would expect both parties, and whoever may have went shooting over lunch or left the live rounds nearby or in the pistol to be paying out some big money and that responsibility will not be decided in court.

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Thank you for saying that.

I think Baldwin's personal beliefs and politics should be irrelevant. His personality as well IMO are irrelevant. I don't think for one second that a person's guilt or innocence, or their responsibility for a criminal act should hinge in any part on their beliefs, politics, or their personality. Only the facts and evidence of the alleged criminal act and if they were responsible for committing the criminal act.

We should never allow persona bias towards other people to influence our decisions to determine guilt or innocence of another person.

 

[bbbass]

I don't think Baldwin acted criminally, based on what I have heard about common practice of movie safety.

What I have read about movie industry standards runs the gamut from a union policy for actors that instructs them on very strict gun safety rules/practices, to reports of other "experts" in the industry that are also very strictly gun safe, to common practices or "how we usually do it" carelessness, and unsafe practices (such as the stupidity of a COLD gun).

AFAIK, Baldwin is not unfamiliar with guns. And I doubt highly that he's never come across gun safety in safety meetings, tho I don't have proof/evidence of that. I think he's just arrogant and egotistical enough to think they don't apply to himself... ie; it's somebody else's job and he can do as he pleases.

My thinking is that as a Producer, Baldwin had choices. If his choices were so reckless as to create an atmosphere and chain of events that result in death, that becomes criminal in my mind (or at least it should... I may or may not have slept at a Holiday Express). And although it's a common practice on SOME sets for the actor to accept a firearm as a COLD gun and trust the armorer/propmstr/AD to have checked the firearm (DUMB PRACTICE), under NO CIRCUMSTANCES that I could find, post Brandon Lee, is a firearm pointed in unsafe directions or at unprotected crew/staff, and the trigger pulled. (Edit: actually, I may be wrong... as Harris Faulkner reported an actor freaking after being hit with a shotgun wad... but I'm not sure what year that happened.)

His personality as well IMO are irrelevant. I don't think for one second that a person's guilt or innocence, or their responsibility for a criminal act should hinge in any part on their beliefs, politics, or their personality.

AFAIK personality does become involved in some criminal cases. In the investigation, it can point at suspects. And in court, where it can be used against one that has a criminal or volatile nature, at least in the summation. And also in sentencing interviews it is definitely a consideration as to the amount of guilt a person bears and the penalty they should pay.

I certainly judge people's guilt or innocence based upon what I know of them, as well as any facts, given that in reading news stories I am never going to have all the facts. But what I judge in my mind or on paper has no weight or consequences. Now if I was sitting on a jury, and I have, I judge the issue based only on the facts and evidence presented (and less on the oft emotional summations). However, this forum is not a courtroom, so I'll carry on thinking and saying bad things about AB.

I've tried to be fair in my assessment, even tho I can't stand the guy, and nothing presented anywhere has changed my mind about his responsibility for his choices, his actions, and how he ran that set and production site.

 

[TX oddball]

Involuntary Manslaughter under NM statute requires no intent or specific mental state. He should be charged.

Hollywood protocols and conventions should never supersede rule of law, no matter how cool and bitchen the public seems to regard them.

Just because it was on a movie set with a well-known actor does not give these assholes immunity from societal rules and laws. Statutes and laws do not state "...and we exempt filmmakers and movie stars from our laws and statutes..."

Replace Baldwin and his crew with college kids inexperienced in firearms, making a you tube clip using guns and the same thing happened. Some of those kids would be in handcuffs and taken into custody, and would be in a boatload of trouble.

 

[Hoji]

For BM it must be.

I'm still interested it how this shooting happened. So fsr I have heard nothing reasonable sounding that would criminal, but the <$6m budget may look like chump change once the civil suits are over.


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Allow me to be hepful.

 

[Texasgordo]

 

[Chuckles]

View attachment 285791

Who is this worthless bitch?

 

[Axxe55]

Who is this worthless bitch?

You ever heard of Google?

Took me all of about five seconds to find her.

Ana Navarro - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Texasgordo]

Who is this worthless bitch?

RINO political bullshitter and rabid never Trumper Ana Navarro

 

[bbbass]

Ana Navarro - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I thought I recognized the name... a frequent CNN contributor, a Bush Republican RINO, and a victim of self inflicted TDS.

@Texasgordo... beat me to it. lol

 

[Axxe55]

I thought I recognized the name... a frequent CNN contributor, a Bush Republican RINO, and a victim of self inflicted TDS.

I have to assume that Google is above some people's pay grade!

And without knowing who she is, or what she stands for, one person assumes she's a "worthless bitch". Rather pathetic.

 

[rotor]

RINO political bullshitter and rabid never Trumper Ana Navarro

When you vote for democrats over republicans I wouldn't call her a RINO. She is a democrat.

 

[bbbass]

I have to assume that Google is above some people's pay grade!

A spoonful of sugar, my friend.

 

[bbbass]

When you vote for democrats over republicans I wouldn't call her a RINO. She is a democrat.

And that is purely the definition of RINO. lol

 

[Axxe55]

When you vote for democrats over republicans I wouldn't call her a RINO. She is a democrat.

She's a RINO. She identifies, as a Republican, but votes Democrat. That's a RINO.

RINO= Republican In Name Only.

 

[rotor]

She's a RINO. She identifies, as a Republican, but votes Democrat. That's a RINO.

RINO= Republican In Name Only.

We are questioning the exact definition of a RINO. I take it to mean a person elected as a republican but governing as a democrat. I guess the other option is a person registered as a republican that votes for democrats in the election. In the race where it was HRC and Obama in the Texas primary, I as a registered republican voted for HRC to try to defeat Obama. We know how that went down. I don't consider myself a RINO. Eventually it comes down to the if it looks like a duck, etc. Not really worth discussing much more.

 

[bbbass]

I think if his politics were right wing, the left would be calling for his head and most of you who bring up his politics in the course of assigning blame would suddenly be defending him.

Well lessee....

If it were Cheney, nope... he din't kill anybody and I don't admire him or his politics.

If it were Trump, nope, he does golf and not guns and while I admire what he accomplished I don't admire him personally.

If it were Jesus, yes, because he would be calling someone home and I adore him.

And we need to recognize CONVENTIONS like checking a firearm's load status are CONVENTIONS.

Agreed. But only NOW is AB coming out in support of changing the way they do things. SMDH

 

[BillM]

I have to assume that Google is above some people's pay grade!

And without knowing who she is, or what she stands for, one person assumes she's a "worthless bitch". Rather pathetic.

I'd have to say any female rino and cnn contributor fits that remark well.

 

[Axxe55]

I'd have to say any female rino and cnn contributor fits that remark well.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Involuntary Manslaughter under NM statute requires no intent or specific mental state. He should be charged.

Here is the statute I think you are thinking of

****************************

30-2-3. Manslaughter.
Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.
...
B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.
Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

************************************

I'm no expert in NM law or case law, but by my reading this statute would not apply unless Baldwin was committing some other misdemeanor crime like poaching or drunk driving or something.

If you're thinking of another statue please, correct me.


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[Axxe55]

Here is the statute I think you are thinking of

****************************

30-2-3. Manslaughter.
Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.
...
B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.
Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

************************************

I'm no expert in NM law or case law, but by my reading this statute would not apply unless Baldwin was committing some other misdemeanor crime like poaching or drunk driving or something.

If you're thinking of another statue please, correct me.


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I'm not a legal scholar, and I sure didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night either! But could negligent homicide be applied?